Personally I use http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html and it solved all these problems for me quite nicely. No more pid files, no more ownership problems, no more logging headaches. I think someone has a HowTo on setting up daemontools with z2.py/stupid logger, but I actually wrote my own logging module and replaced z2.py entirely with a 39 line python script that does nothing but pcgi (which is all I needed). I don't expect this to become a standard solution for all the usual reasons DJB's software never becomes a standard. But do take a look at the design behind it, its good stuff. (if anyone wants my start scritps or logger mail me off-list) -- Jamie Heilman http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/ "It's almost impossible to overestimate the unimportance of most things." -John Logue