ZCA is very interesting stuff. I got a call today from a client who wants to do an extensible application in Javacript. I instantly thought, we could do ZCA in Javascript. And while not many people likes ZODB servers, they all love Javascript clients. Has anyone done something like this? Is anyone interested in doing something like this? What do you think???? And forgive me if this is not strictly speaking about zope development, but this email list is certainly the community of people who would be interested in this topic. And while we are discussing Javascript, which zope packages should I be using for Javascript development and templating? Megrok.Jinja? Regards Christopher Lozinski
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Should laugh or run and cry? - -aj Christopher Lozinski wrote:
ZCA is very interesting stuff.
I got a call today from a client who wants to do an extensible application in Javacript.
I instantly thought, we could do ZCA in Javascript. And while not many people likes ZODB servers, they all love Javascript clients.
Has anyone done something like this? Is anyone interested in doing something like this?
What do you think????
And forgive me if this is not strictly speaking about zope development, but this email list is certainly the community of people who would be interested in this topic.
And while we are discussing Javascript, which zope packages should I be using for Javascript development and templating? Megrok.Jinja?
Regards Christopher Lozinski
_______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
- -- ZOPYX Limited | Python | Zope | Plone | MongoDB Hundskapfklinge 33 | Consulting & Development D-72074 Tübingen | Electronic Publishing Solutions www.zopyx.com | Scalable Web Solutions - -------------------------------------------------- Produce & Publish - www.produce-and-publish.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJRnEgWAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjOx8Lv0BU/NObVNnCGFw4wRmuhBuX 32ps/gy5AOKnq7XH0EcKAnfN4q1g0txmIr+q4xLUVnLyphvyDPP+7TMNDHibTLqI eMhvikxejV8O5wA1dkYJlCE+Z3NuLObDjluGvU3/qJ25ylxuUc4GoOpxqV6By8UG zTfTiWiWxxWryIefy+KW5xe6eX52Q+76j259SoEUlc45Z5gq/QT6LL/65sW5bV68 eDhOEftCKGzObRT6tRXeMsk8pSiiOwl3wdB2fx2sXVu+hxZWHQLh+ex70uggP/Sd Lr10itke6biz9gDybvLUeomj4Os+sZdOhz0VHuNha95Kg4/P53zzbZs7qdu2mEzP mxqSbwpz1VHmvLGoSHiVoaKMx/rktSmqlcrxikfAbQjeWeyuQ7Eta5nZ82wP1e3I pZD299UHwxjTsXAxNEnst4C8R8Jw3E4q32YDtTImfbrRSuW+usG51DLH4/kVi+vD UnZtT5zDzgW0yY2iY7Jc97EXhZzjSw8= =H822 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 5/21/13 11:22 PM, Andreas Jung wrote:
Should laugh or run and cry?
Neither. You should tell me what is wrong with the idea. I think adaptors are a good tool for components. ZCA is the only system I know of for doing this. Clearly it needs to be ported to Javascript, but that is easy compared to figuring out all the issues. So what is the problem. Is there a reason you cannot have adaptors in Javascript??? And as a general note, I would have been much further along if I had not received such hostility from this mailing list in the past. Chris
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Like always: you're thoughtd and reasoning are years behind of what people actually do today or using nowadays. I remember your pointless discussions on ZClasses - years ago, years after we kicked ZClasses completely. I suggest to move on to a Javascript community and continue do discuss there. Nowaday we have framework like backbone.js, angular.js on the client for doing state-of-the-art client-side JS implementations. Or stuff like Obviel (from Martijn Faasen, a long time contributor of Zope). Don't take it personally but all your questions and communication over the last decade it based on very little technical insight and experience. Application design and decisions should be left to other persons. - -aj Christopher Lozinski wrote:
On 5/21/13 11:22 PM, Andreas Jung wrote:
Should laugh or run and cry?
Neither.
You should tell me what is wrong with the idea.
I think adaptors are a good tool for components.
ZCA is the only system I know of for doing this.
Clearly it needs to be ported to Javascript, but that is easy compared to figuring out all the issues.
So what is the problem. Is there a reason you cannot have adaptors in Javascript???
And as a general note, I would have been much further along if I had not received such hostility from this mailing list in the past.
Chris
- -- ZOPYX Limited | Python | Zope | Plone | MongoDB Hundskapfklinge 33 | Consulting & Development D-72074 Tübingen | Electronic Publishing Solutions www.zopyx.com | Scalable Web Solutions - -------------------------------------------------- Produce & Publish - www.produce-and-publish.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJRnEp6AAoJEADcfz7u4AZjr3kLvjmSdZFAu/yVe5jV1a5i6Qu3 K8L0eQNySNSQncbv0uPPjTBGJt7Vn3XTJjlHXQA9C3ozGVLioXA1s+H0LUFBpyNZ kGj0Ss9/r1BnSFQZIWQ4vlex/oixbywWqqahL9UeaPX1jiTVW6cDiKN+0pJRJGoa 4lVSsgU8YljN+ZaLreh9/hhscFfnsQl8zJlZ7bY+WjL3sW0ZFklEQ4SH3G3PiRgs 2TQEEz9JtGDfE6allyRTv/JKrI+NXvrS8VNN0HGz8WbJlAwLMitn575y0z7t5Ogk Hn1IfbrIPAnZgJh/Rg9J7wUrCvt65lLkaPflVTphsax/IdMNnMyaADBfMvrD25s1 Mgd7JAy+9/ReMSiQCY4YsqZjoeyppSxIU2QZpeldOWYspV1IFhJhxqZqUv/XGDCR a9yuqhzpj8YDCQoOCEOAJz7t8hGQb6oPBh6EIjO3gmWqHCw4+Cdb3Z3Q7+1P2XBh NaMaUo1yLfBYFe7LjAbyQs9jo5eCI+o= =iVBR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I suggest to move on to a Javascript community and continue do discuss there. Nowaday we have framework like backbone.js, angular.js on the client for doing state-of-the-art client-side JS implementations. Or stuff like Obviel (from Martijn Faasen, a long time contributor of Zope).
Thank you. That is the information I needed. I will take a look at Obviel first. It must contain a lot of these ideas. On 5/21/13 11:32 PM, Andreas Jung wrote:
Like always: you're thoughtd and reasoning are years behind of what people actually do today or using nowadays. I remember your pointless discussions on ZClasses - years ago,
Not pointless. I figured out how to do it. I now know how to implement ZClasses on Zope 3. http://zopache.com/RFP_LozinskiClasses Just took a while longer than it should have. To much discouragement here.
years after we kicked ZClasses completely. There you go. You have a personal policy of kicking out ideas. Very closed minded.
Actually a very simplified version of Schema TTW is included in the open source project schooltools. http://book.schooltool.org/demographics-schema.html It is a huge pity a better version is not readily available to all of us. That one is GPL. Such a product, would greatly have helped more widespread adoption of Zope 3.
Don't take it personally but all your questions and communication over the last decade it based on very little technical insight and experience. Application design and decisions should be left to other persons. That works for me, as long as zope marketing is not left to you!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Christopher Lozinski wrote:
On 5/21/13 11:32 PM, Andreas Jung wrote:
Like always: you're thoughtd and reasoning are years behind of what people actually do today or using nowadays. I remember your pointless discussions on ZClasses - years ago,
Not pointless. I figured out how to do it. I now know how to implement ZClasses on Zope 3. http://zopache.com/RFP_LozinskiClasses
Just took a while longer than it should have. To much discouragement here.
You are stilling blathering like all the years. You show up every other year arguing about old stuff and bring idea and saying that you are doing something. What have you done so far and what did you contribute so far? Nothing. So recall my first reply..I know that this is now personal but dealing with people providing only blather to the community is annoying. - -aj -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJRnFApAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjFLoLv2jD2zIQ7+YdPD7TnsAA76VW GiJZ9lsFS41Xr0ItPoXC3wAfuw1htjLwEAQGGsxlSqVIK/q2r4rraRD1sTDDDt7M fD2CuE/NXgvnBJ6lSPSvqiz6q4vXmsLQtMLLUbrU3imRLF/fex3PBs9O+RkDFBzq CHbQN0pwhf5646nYkBaZjaCoWZL/b21OersUU8FyYVaGllFWd+fydkAXBbzDzvDh kLTxjVS+LWFyc8BtzRO6TdB7nmHShoO9Nr23HX2O8ihsMkbhA45IW9//O8DBVaHH VKOu2tuCukKKCW7E9Zoji4gAdAiAs9YLewX5jOwP8CV8+ttU4XSOT77xOp0TnYxt 7m6CCR0UhFeYpvgNK0Nuhak6IRFZWhJeuXLvpVvweXZADlz7kSO3hU5sXigKvpsd 56VUk/9dPu/OhbOGs0Ih7+wzM4aNoLBlEkYZoHpdMFg4EVC8Df7XQ4kZicxrmLwa BjciPOKN4IP5vqsvAKNtcmhNFXW2MHY= =eqzR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 5/21/13 11:57 PM, Andreas Jung wrote:
What have you done so far and what did you contribute so far? I have downloaded and installed ZTFY, and given Thierry lots of feedback. Perhaps I even changed his direction more towards wikis as a ZTFY application, instead of blogs. We will see what happens. That is a marketing activity, not a software development activity, on my part.
I have created most of wiki.ztfy.org Documenting open source software is a great way to understand it. I have created a high level introduction into the the packages in ZTK http://www.zopache.com/ZTK_Package I have figured out the market niche for ZTFY. Sure it is a blog and CMS. But there are many of those. It is an extensible blog and CMS. Because it is based on ZCA, it is more flexible than existing CMS. If Plone meets your needs, perfect, use it. But if you find Plone not sufficiently flexible, then it makes sense to move to ZTFY. The announcement is ready to go out. Over the last two weeks, I have persuaded a developer to use ZTFY as his content management application server for javascript applications. That makes him the third user of ztfy. And I tell you the first few users are by far the hardest ones to get. The rest come much faster. I helped him through the blue bream hello world demo. Actually I figured out the bug in the tutorial. http://www.zopache.com/HelloWorld I have contracted out the first release of Zopache http://zopache.com/RFP_Intro That page also covers the detailed ongoing Specs of what I am building. And my consultant has downloaded and installed ztfy, and given Thierry his feedback. Which makes the consultant the 4th user of ztfy. I have been encouraging others to post on these mailing lists, and I have been answering questions on the mailing lists. And finally, with your help, we have made this mailing list much livelier. All good. But really your question of what I have contributed so far is quite hostile. If we want new users for ZTK, we should be much more friendly to people on these mailing lists. In fact the new ZTFY user posted on these mailing lists, I sent him a nice warm reply, soon we were talking, and now he is both committed to ZTFY and understands why it is the best choice in the market for his needs. I totally understand that there is way too much work to be done here. That is why I am looking for consultants to contract it out to. Actually that is why I am being really nice to newbies, in the hope that they will join and contribute. This new guy does not like Page Templates. He wants to use Jinja2. I pointed him towards Megrok.Jinja. I am optimistic that he will migrate megrok.jinja to ztfy because he needs it for his own purposes. We have already walked through the code There are a few grok imports we still have to figure out how to get rid of. http://www.zopache.com/RFP_Jinja2 See how easy it is to bring people into the fold! I encourage you to be nice to others. It works! And then when they need to, they contribute open source software. It is the only way it happens. Thanks again for the help with the Javascript question! Chris
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Andreas Jung <lists@zopyx.com> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Like always: you're thoughtd and reasoning are years behind of what people actually do today or using nowadays. I remember your pointless discussions on ZClasses - years ago, years after we kicked ZClasses completely.
We (I) dropped the ball on ZClasses. They were for an audience that was important in the early days of Zope and that we turned our backs on. IMO, he was right to champion them. I think if we'd paid attention, Zope would be more relevant today than it is now.
I suggest to move on to a Javascript community and continue do discuss there. Nowaday we have framework like backbone.js, angular.js on the client for doing state-of-the-art client-side JS implementations. Or stuff like Obviel (from Martijn Faasen, a long time contributor of Zope). Don't take it personally but all your questions and communication over the last decade it based on very little technical insight and experience. Application design and decisions should be left to other persons.
How can he not take it personally when you start and end by insulting him. Your response is inappropriate and mostly non-technical. If you're uninterested in his proposal, just be quiet. Maybe others are or it will die out. If you want to help by respectfully providing technical arguments, then that's fine too. Jim -- Jim Fulton http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton
Hi,
I instantly thought, we could do ZCA in Javascript. And while not many people likes ZODB servers, they all love Javascript clients.
Has anyone done something like this? Is anyone interested in doing something like this?
Some companies incl. Nexedi are working on this: renderjs.org It is intended to be a component architecture in Javascript in which : - a component is defined as an HTML page (reusable) - interaction between components is defined inside interaction components (reusable) - anything else (inter-component communication, metadata) is based on typed links - and it can support of form of JS code isolation (https://gitorious.org/nexedi/renderjs/commits/safejs) which was created at INRIA renderjs.org combined with j-io.org will be used to make a pure JS offline office suite and the new UI of ERP5. Possibly, we will make an alternative UI to ZMI based on it. renderjs.org is not yet alpha j-io.org is alpha safejs is not yet alpha
What do you think????
True component architectures are missing in JS world and some useful initiatives (ex. AMD) are too much inspired by static typed systems to fully leverage the dynamic nature of JS. Replicating ZCA or other component architectures to JS has other issues: it could leads to a programming style which could be rejected by JS communities, for good or for bad reasons. Regards, JPS.
And forgive me if this is not strictly speaking about zope development, but this email list is certainly the community of people who would be interested in this topic.
And while we are discussing Javascript, which zope packages should I be using for Javascript development and templating? Megrok.Jinja?
Regards Christopher Lozinski
_______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 1:52 AM, Christopher Lozinski <lozinski@freerecruiting.com> wrote:
ZCA is very interesting stuff.
I got a call today from a client who wants to do an extensible application in Javacript.
I instantly thought, we could do ZCA in Javascript. And while not many people likes ZODB servers, they all love Javascript clients.
Has anyone done something like this? Is anyone interested in doing something like this?
What do you think????
Although I'm sure it is possible to make a generic component architecture in Javascript I highly doubt that it makes sense. JS is almost all about UI and DOM manipulation, and having something as abstract as a generic component framework for that may be an abstraction too far. So what you want is a framework for making modular JS clients. And there are tons and tons of modular frameworks for making front-end apps in Javascript already. Creating another one probably doesn't make any sense, at least not until you can explain exactly why you can't use anyone of those that exist. //Lennart
You may want to look at AngularJS and its injectors. regards Jens On 2013-05-22 01:52, Christopher Lozinski wrote:
ZCA is very interesting stuff.
I got a call today from a client who wants to do an extensible application in Javacript.
I instantly thought, we could do ZCA in Javascript. And while not many people likes ZODB servers, they all love Javascript clients.
Has anyone done something like this? Is anyone interested in doing something like this?
What do you think????
And forgive me if this is not strictly speaking about zope development, but this email list is certainly the community of people who would be interested in this topic.
And while we are discussing Javascript, which zope packages should I be using for Javascript development and templating? Megrok.Jinja?
Regards Christopher Lozinski
-- Klein & Partner KG, member of BlueDynamics Alliance
participants (6)
-
Andreas Jung -
Christopher Lozinski -
Jens W. Klein -
Jim Fulton -
jp＠nexedi.com -
Lennart Regebro