Hi there, Enough discussion. I'm taking a few next steps so we can make progress. I'm going to arbitrarily assume we have enough of a consensus to move forward. Next step is to Just Do It, as Gary said. So, as of right now, we have the Zope Framework. We have a Zope Framework Steering Group. The membership of the Steering Group is Just Me to start with. I'm going to let 4 other people into the group and I'm going to risk offending people by excluding whoever I like. I'm of course going to do my best to work with everybody, in the Steering Group or not; we're just here to help keep things moving in a good set of directions. Who wants to join the Steering Group? Feel free to mail me in private. The Zope Framework is all the zope.* libraries, including all the zope.app.* libraries. That's way too big, it's ridiculous actually, and the priority of the steering group is to get that list down to size as soon as possible. Expect new smaller lists, and expect them to keep shrinking. The first project of the steering group is this: the Zope Framework shouldn't contain a trace of the ZMI. We're going to pull out anything that appears useful out of existing libraries and evict the ZMI out of the Zope Framework, one way or another. Please help, as the success of this project depends on you, Zope Hacker! If you want to make some change to the Zope Framework, start a thread on zope-dev about it. The Steering Group is watching. The Steering Group is going to make decisions in the following way: * a steering group member participates in discussions as normally, saying +1 or -1 or whatever alternative suggestions they may have. * if it's clear there's a consensus by the steering group, we will record the decision in a document in SVN to be announced. If not all steering group members voted and it's "enough time" later, fine, the decision is made by those who did care to contribute. * if there is no consensus by the steering group, the most votes by steering group members in the thread win. It is the task of the steering group to detect this and record it (or delegate its recording by someone else, even better). * if for some reason it's hard to count votes and get consensus in the Steering Group, people can point this out. "Steering Group help, no consensus detected!". We will then reach a consensus. * If there's still no consensus, I'm going to flip a coin and that's going to be the answer. I'm going to do my best to avoid having to flip any coins, as it's very silly to decide on the flip of a coin. * If no steering group member participates in a discussion and consensus is reached, please proceed. Everything's fine. You only need to worry about the steering group if they're actually participating in a discussion or if you don't like the consensus or if no consensus is reached. Feel free to call in the Steering Group and it will fly in. It's not a bird, it's not a plane, it's the Steering Group! The Steering Group has no say over Zope 3, Grok, Zope 2 or whatever. Well, I do have some say over Grok, so currently the steering group is heavily biased towards what Grok wants. :) Regards, Martijn