I couldnt resist jumping in. I have been playing w/ ZOPE and BEA Weblogic for over two years. I would say I know more about Weblogic than ZOPE, but I am more productive w/ ZOPE. thus my 'love' for ZOPE. I believe that before ZOPE can truely take off it will need a miniVend like solution to get the PHP/CF/ASPers to ZOPE. Why? Because everyone needs this functionality - Now. In fact, I want it, but not enough to put the time into either of the two existing solutions. When you come to Zope, its almost impossible to build something like this the first day, even if you are somewhat fluent with Python. Why? Tools/Experience from other systems are not out-of-the-box. Sessions _are_ fundamental in keeping state in a shopping cart application. You can not easily embed logic w/ presentation (please dont flame me.) -- all other systems do it. ZOPE is the only one that *forces* you to be correct. people dont want correct, they want it to work, Now. After using resin, http://www.caucho.com/ for over a year, the dynamically loaded classes, form based authentication (i hear this at least 4-5 times a week on #zope), jsp, easy configuration xml file (?environment variable explosion?), sessions, and clear API documentation. I'm not saying make ZOPE - servlet/jsp like I'm just pointing out what I find **incredibly** useful for large scale ecommerce projects, http://www.skyauction.com/ Redhat's solution is a evolved minivend - http://interchange.redhat.com/cgi-bin/ic/index.html I was on #zope for the talk about creating pay modules for ZOPE. I am a fan of this idea. I think having a 100% Zope Certified Product could lead to more consistent configurations/out-of-the-box products -- how many products besides the DC released ones would you give a 100% Zope Certified Product label to? I havent seen that many at all. With some work they could get it, but very few out-of-the-box. The last thing people want is to have to download 3 different products to get another product working. It would be different if these dependancies were on products like PageTemplates in that they are 100% Zope Certified. Seeing that there are over 300 products, its about time the 'truely drop-in products' are seperated from the almost drop-in workable products. I would like to see a Roadmap for ZOPE. A option to purchase 100% Zope Certified Products (I dont believe this was in the survey sent out to the community) that Work Now. I would like to have a clearer way of development path, a Best Practices. ZEO is a huge secret, if you can get the average ASP/PHPer to be able to use ZEO and get interactive debugging working in the a few hours (or out of the box!! ;) -- you will see a new tune sung about 'ease of use'. I think with the right tools coming out of the box w/ ZOPE in the future it will be gain even more popularity. Preserving quality with a 100% Zope Certified label will give people confidance in the testing/reliability of their Products. And with the option of purchasing modules maybe some people can make some(quite a few?) bucks on the side ;). cheers, ~runyaga