Re: ZMI / JavaScript brainstorm
What is wrong with editing the files trough FTP / WebDAV? I've mounted a complete zopedatabase on a directory, and you can edit all files with your favorite editor. Why wanting such editing posibilities in a easy to use , in everybrowser working interface like the ZMI?
In one word: Types. With ZMI, you can create different methods/objects and then edit them. The problem is that pretty much every other editor out there doesn't know a whit about the types of objects/methods they are creating. Does emacs really know the difference between a python method, dtml-method, dtml-document, and a page template? Not likely. This touches on a larger issue of using ZODB as an object file system, with all the messiness and painful history that concept has had (BeOS, OS/2 HPFS, Mac's data/resource forks, MS's upcoming OFS stuff immediately come to mind). So far, the best folks have been able to come up with has been to use filenname extensions, and you know how many folks are really happy with that idea ... :| -Charles
At 12:43 PM 4/8/02 -0700, "Charles Y. Choi" <cchoi@sonicsinc.com> wrote:
So far, the best folks have been able to come up with has been to use filenname extensions
Are you referring to the <http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ObjectTypeAssociationAndDeathToIndexHtml>Object Type Assocation And Death To index_html planned for Zope 2.6? That document proposes, "to add a general-purpose facility to Folders that allows a Site Manager to control the relationships between file extensions, content-types and object types. This facility would also provide a way for a Site Manager to specify the "default document" to be used for a Folder." Or maybe I've got this mixed up with something else. Thanks, Bill "The commandments of the LORD are right, bringing joy to the heart. The commands of the LORD are clear, giving insight to life . . . For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." (Psalm 19:8, 1John 5:3) <http://torahteacher.com/>torahteacher.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 3/22/02
"Charles Y. Choi" wrote:
With ZMI, you can create different methods/objects and then edit them. The problem is that pretty much every other editor out there doesn't know a whit about the types of objects/methods they are creating. Does emacs really know the difference between a python method, dtml-method, dtml-document, and a page template? Not likely.
*grinz* You never heard of a PUT_factory? You can (and I do) do this in Zope 2 already. Think about it, how does Windoze know the difference between a Photoshop file and a Windows Bitmap? Zope 2 is even clever than this, I have logic that says if the first character in a thing is a # then create a PythonScript from it... As for EMACS, it certainly knows about python (M-x python-mode), and there's HTML mode for page templates. If you wanna use DTML, you deserve to burn in hell anyway, so you ain't gonna need an editor ;-) cheers, Chris
Chris Withers wrote:
"Charles Y. Choi" wrote:
With ZMI, you can create different methods/objects and then edit them. The problem is that pretty much every other editor out there doesn't know a whit about the types of objects/methods they are creating. Does emacs really know the difference between a python method, dtml-method, dtml-document, and a page template? Not likely.
*grinz* You never heard of a PUT_factory? You can (and I do) do this in Zope 2 already. Think about it, how does Windoze know the difference between a Photoshop file and a Windows Bitmap? Zope 2 is even clever than this, I have logic that says if the first character in a thing is a # then create a PythonScript from it...
As for EMACS, it certainly knows about python (M-x python-mode), and there's HTML mode for page templates. If you wanna use DTML, you deserve to burn in hell anyway, so you ain't gonna need an editor ;-)
Yes, and though your PUT_factory override is a great thing, it's an unsupported patch: that is, it's not part of the standard packaging of Zope. The conventions you use (# for PythonScripts) are not clearly documented. And as much as I'd love to to chuck DTML, ZPT is still buggy in 2.5.0 - (try creating a page template for the view method of a ZClass). As far as emacs goes, it uses file extensions to automatically determine what mode to be in. Brain hurts, must sleep ... -cc
"Charles Y. Choi" wrote:
Yes, and though your PUT_factory override is a great thing, it's an unsupported patch: that is, it's not part of the standard packaging of Zope.
Urm, PUT_factory has been a standard part of Zope for some time now...
The conventions you use (# for PythonScripts) are not clearly documented.
That's because I've overridden the default PUT_Factory, hich is one of its strengths, you can customise it ;-)
And as much as I'd love to to chuck DTML, ZPT is still buggy in 2.5.0 - (try creating a page template for the view method of a ZClass).
ZClasses are a waste of time, even more so than DTML. I've not experienced any bugs in ZPT when used in a sane context.
As far as emacs goes, it uses file extensions to automatically determine what mode to be in.
yes, and? *grinz* cheers, Chris
ZClasses are a waste of time, even more so than DTML.
Words of comfort. :^) Nice never having spent the time to learn 'em.
I've not experienced any bugs in ZPT when used in a sane context.
Same here, after several months' usage. -- Two witches watch two watches. Which witch watched which watch? Nicola Larosa - nico@tekNico.net
At 09.04.2002 10:46 +0100, Chris Withers wrote:
ZClasses are a waste of time, even more so than DTML.
Chris, please stop that dissing of ZClasses. They are *very* useful indeed! No, not so much for the seasoned Python/Zope coder, but for the content manager (remember, Zope is a CMS after all!). I have successfully taught ZClasses to people who would not easily grasp how this (disk-based) Python stuff works, simply because they are content managers not software developers. And, IMO, they should not even need to care. I sure hope this part of Zope's audience is not forgotten in Zope3. I have always considered it a strength of Zope to allow "unskilled" users to create and deploy dynamic websites. We can fight this out at the BBQ if you like ;-) Stefan -- BLOWFISH n. - Preference for beef
On Tue, 09 Apr 2002 12:56:38 +0200, "Stefan H. Holek" <stefan@epy.co.at> wrote:
ZClasses are a waste of time, even more so than DTML.
Chris, please stop that dissing of ZClasses. They are *very* useful indeed!
No, not so much for the seasoned Python/Zope coder
Even for the seasoned Python/Zope coder, ZClasses have a sweet spot that cant be beaten by any other zope technology. Toby Dickenson tdickenson@geminidataloggers.com
"Stefan H. Holek" wrote:
At 09.04.2002 10:46 +0100, Chris Withers wrote:
ZClasses are a waste of time, even more so than DTML.
Chris, please stop that dissing of ZClasses. They are *very* useful indeed!
If you enjoy pain and suffering and no upgrade path. I will not stop dissing them until people stop using them and then complaining when they break, don't do what they want or behave unexpectedly.
No, not so much for the seasoned Python/Zope coder, but for the content manager (remember, Zope is a CMS after all!).
Use the Types Tool in the CMF, its a lot closer to what ZClasses wanted to be.
I sure hope this part of Zope's audience is not forgotten in Zope3. I have always considered it a strength of Zope to allow "unskilled" users to create and deploy dynamic websites.
Yup, I have the same fear for Zope 3, but trying to stand up for one of the most difficult to learn and use pieces in the whole Zope architecture is not the way to go about it...
We can fight this out at the BBQ if you like ;-)
...you're buying the beers though. Chris
participants (6)
-
Charles Y. Choi -
Chris Withers -
Nicola Larosa -
Stefan H. Holek -
Toby Dickenson -
William Trenker