I agree that it looks better. The addition of another whole frame for this though is my main beef with it. Perhaps this could be integrated some other way. Frames should only be added when there is no other option. It's just that browsers waste so much space up there anyway, and the extra 32 pixels are in addition to that "waste". I personally don't care how it "looks" so much as how efficient it is. All of the other aethestic changes I feel enhance both looks and efficiency. The top frame does not IMHO. Form should definitely follow function here. BTW: I have been know to use Zope on an old machine with a 640X480 screen. Although I generally eschew the frames altogether then and open manage_main by itself. It's not really fun, but it works. --- Brian Lloyd <brian@digicool.com> wrote:

Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^)

Seriously - Zope has been criticized for a very long time for being, ah, aesthetically challenged :) It is a valid criticism - we have been (and quite honestly, will continue to be) more concerned with function over form. But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding?

I know that "branding" isn't important for those who are already believers, but Zope has grown enough that its reasonable to put some effort into "first impression factor". It doesn't help the community for reviews to come out that waste words on the visual appeal shortcomings of the UI and totally miss the point. A better first impression is a Good Thing.

The top frame is also a place where we might want to put more "placeless" operations like logout in the future. You can only jam so much into the tree pane without it looking very much like way too much is being jammed into the tree pane :) FWIW, one of the things we may put there later is a way to do "browser preferences" via cookies to control things like default text area sizes. That could also have a "hide top frame" option for those who really can't spare the 32px. :^)

===== | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | cduncan@kaivo.com `-----------------> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/