producing a list of packages in the Zope Framework?
Hi there, The Zope Framework Steering Group needs your help. Could people get together and help draw up a list of packages that should be in the Zope Framework? We should get everything in the Zope 3 KGS listing and start whittling it down, by removing things that are obviously not part of the Zope Framework. That includes ZMI compatibility packages like zope.app.folder. It also removes packages that are just long-term broken. A good place to start looking for such long-term broken packages is the compattest default exclusion list: http://svn.zope.org/z3c.recipe.compattest/trunk/src/z3c/recipe/compattest/re... But I'm sure we can find more packages to evict from the Zope Framework. Have fun! Regards, Martijn
Hey, No volunteers to help produce such a list? Regards, Martijn
Hi. Martijn Faassen wrote:
No volunteers to help produce such a list?
Attached you'll find my suggestion for the list. It is based on the Zope2/Plone perspective: Which packages do those two actually use from all the zope.* packages. I suspect the set will initially be a bit larger to accommodate Grok. There is also going to be a set of new packages which should be included over time I guess and a set of packages which should no longer be part of the Zope Framework. This might be a good start however. Hanno Dependencies not part of the Zope Framework ClientForm RestrictedPython ZConfig ZODB3 docutils mechanize pytz setuptools transaction zc.lockfile zdaemon Zope Framework zope.annotation zope.app.applicationcontrol zope.app.appsetup zope.app.authentication zope.app.basicskin zope.app.cache zope.app.component zope.app.container zope.app.debug zope.app.dependable zope.app.exception zope.app.form zope.app.http zope.app.interface zope.app.locales zope.app.pagetemplate zope.app.publication zope.app.publisher zope.app.schema zope.app.security zope.app.testing zope.broken zope.browser zope.cachedescriptors zope.component zope.configuration zope.container zope.contentprovider zope.contenttype zope.copy zope.copypastemove zope.datetime zope.deferredimport zope.deprecation zope.dottedname zope.dublincore zope.error zope.event zope.exceptions zope.filerepresentation zope.formlib zope.hookable zope.i18n zope.i18nmessageid zope.interface zope.lifecycleevent zope.location zope.minmax zope.pagetemplate zope.proxy zope.publisher zope.schema zope.security zope.sendmail zope.sequencesort zope.server zope.session zope.site zope.size zope.structuredtext zope.tal zope.tales zope.testbrowser zope.testing zope.traversing zope.viewlet Parts of the Zope 3.5 KGS not required by Zope 2.12 / Plone 4 zope.catalog zope.decorator zope.documenttemplate zope.file zope.html zope.index zope.intid zope.keyreference zope.mimetype zope.modulealias zope.rdb zope.securitypolicy zope.testrecorder zope.ucol zope.wfmc zope.xmlpickle zope.app.apidoc zope.app.boston zope.app.broken zope.app.catalog zope.app.content zope.app.dav zope.app.debugskin zope.app.dtmlpage zope.app.error zope.app.externaleditor zope.app.file zope.app.folder zope.app.ftp zope.app.generations zope.app.homefolder zope.app.i18n zope.app.i18nfile zope.app.interpreter zope.app.intid zope.app.layers zope.app.locking zope.app.module zope.app.onlinehelp zope.app.pluggableauth zope.app.preference zope.app.preview zope.app.principalannotation zope.app.pythonpage zope.app.renderer zope.app.rotterdam zope.app.securitypolicy zope.app.server zope.app.session zope.app.skins zope.app.sqlscript zope.app.traversing zope.app.tree zope.app.twisted zope.app.undo zope.app.wfmc zope.app.workflow zope.app.wsgi zope.app.xmlrpcintrospection zope.app.zapi zope.app.zcmlfiles zope.app.zopeappgenerations zope.app.zptpage
On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 16:37 +0100, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
Hi.
Martijn Faassen wrote:
No volunteers to help produce such a list?
This is the friendly reminder that this thread is stalled. ;) When going through the list myself I didn't see a clear cut-off-point for things to include and things not to include. So?
Attached you'll find my suggestion for the list. It is based on the Zope2/Plone perspective: Which packages do those two actually use from all the zope.* packages.
I suspect the set will initially be a bit larger to accommodate Grok.
There is also going to be a set of new packages which should be included over time I guess and a set of packages which should no longer be part of the Zope Framework.
This might be a good start however.
Hanno
plain text document attachment (zope_framework.txt) Dependencies not part of the Zope Framework
ClientForm RestrictedPython ZConfig ZODB3 docutils mechanize pytz setuptools transaction zc.lockfile zdaemon
Zope Framework
zope.annotation zope.app.applicationcontrol zope.app.appsetup zope.app.authentication zope.app.basicskin zope.app.cache zope.app.component zope.app.container zope.app.debug zope.app.dependable zope.app.exception zope.app.form zope.app.http zope.app.interface zope.app.locales zope.app.pagetemplate zope.app.publication zope.app.publisher zope.app.schema zope.app.security zope.app.testing
It might be a goal to get rid of all of zope.app with respect to the Zope Framework definition.
zope.broken
Hmm. There's only a single marker interface in that package.
zope.browser zope.cachedescriptors zope.component zope.configuration zope.container zope.contentprovider zope.contenttype zope.copy zope.copypastemove zope.datetime
Is this actually still needed? It looks like this pre-dates Python's datetime module. There's also pytz around.
zope.deferredimport
I feel like we might wanna keep it although we want to avoid deferredimports.
zope.deprecation
We're talking about getting rid of deprecation so we might want to give up the package too, once decided. ;)
zope.dottedname zope.dublincore zope.error zope.event zope.exceptions zope.filerepresentation zope.formlib zope.hookable zope.i18n zope.i18nmessageid zope.interface zope.lifecycleevent zope.location zope.minmax zope.pagetemplate zope.proxy zope.publisher zope.schema zope.security zope.sendmail zope.sequencesort zope.server zope.session zope.site zope.size zope.structuredtext zope.tal zope.tales zope.testbrowser zope.testing zope.traversing zope.viewlet
I don't see a package that would be blindingly obvious to take away from the remainder of the list.
Parts of the Zope 3.5 KGS not required by Zope 2.12 / Plone 4
Most of the following list I agree to exclude, except the ones I marked up. Some I'm not sure about.
zope.catalog
+1 for keeping
zope.decorator zope.documenttemplate zope.file zope.html zope.index
+1 for keeping
zope.intid
+1 for keeping
zope.keyreference
+1 for keeping
zope.mimetype
unsure
zope.modulealias zope.rdb zope.securitypolicy zope.testrecorder zope.ucol zope.wfmc zope.xmlpickle zope.app.apidoc zope.app.boston zope.app.broken zope.app.catalog zope.app.content zope.app.dav zope.app.debugskin zope.app.dtmlpage zope.app.error zope.app.externaleditor zope.app.file zope.app.folder zope.app.ftp zope.app.generations zope.app.homefolder zope.app.i18n zope.app.i18nfile zope.app.interpreter zope.app.intid zope.app.layers zope.app.locking zope.app.module zope.app.onlinehelp zope.app.pluggableauth zope.app.preference zope.app.preview zope.app.principalannotation zope.app.pythonpage zope.app.renderer zope.app.rotterdam zope.app.securitypolicy zope.app.server zope.app.session zope.app.skins zope.app.sqlscript zope.app.traversing zope.app.tree zope.app.twisted zope.app.undo zope.app.wfmc zope.app.workflow zope.app.wsgi zope.app.xmlrpcintrospection zope.app.zapi zope.app.zcmlfiles zope.app.zopeappgenerations zope.app.zptpage
Christian -- Christian Theune · ct@gocept.com gocept gmbh & co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 7 · fax +49 345 1229889 1 Zope and Plone consulting and development
Hey Christian, Thanks for picking up on this discussion. Christian Theune wrote: [snip]
It might be a goal to get rid of all of zope.app with respect to the Zope Framework definition.
Our *goal* is not to have any zope.app package within the framework. zope.app should be useful for Zope 3 as it provides the ZMI and backwards compatibility, but I hope that Grok and Zope 2 can move away from using zope.app.* packages very soon. But today, the major users of the wider Zope Framework (Zope 2, Zope 3 and Grok) all do use these packages, so it's our business to take care of them. Until the zope.app.* packages have all become backwards compatibility stubs, deprecated code and the home for the ZMI we have to continue to take responsibility for it.
zope.broken
Hmm. There's only a single marker interface in that package.
Created by Tres recently, to remove a further dependency from zope.container. We'll have to discuss what to do with packages that don't seem to carry their weight at some point, but let's go with it for now. [snip]
zope.datetime
Is this actually still needed? It looks like this pre-dates Python's datetime module. There's also pytz around.
I don't know, does other code refer to it?
zope.deferredimport
I feel like we might wanna keep it although we want to avoid deferredimports.
It'll have to stay around as we use it for now. But we might at some point decide that zope.deferredimport (with its rather heavy dependency on zope.proxy which has C code) is more trouble than it is worth. Right now the policy is: * If zope.deferredimport is used in a package merely to avoid the use of ``from`` imports, then instead we will use ``from`` imports to get rid of this dependency. [snip]
Parts of the Zope 3.5 KGS not required by Zope 2.12 / Plone 4
Most of the following list I agree to exclude, except the ones I marked up. Some I'm not sure about.
zope.catalog
+1 for keeping
I agree we should keep the catalog, intid and indexing infrastucture as something we care about. We should also investigate things like zc.catalog as something within the framework.
zope.decorator zope.documenttemplate zope.file zope.html zope.index
+1 for keeping
I think zope.documenttemplate should eventually be able to live as a template language implementation that can plug into the framework as opposed as an integral part of it. How do we proceed? Shall we take Hanno's list as a starting point, put it in our documentation for now, and then weed out bits on a case by case basis? (continuing this discussion) Regards, Martijn
On Wednesday 04 March 2009, Martijn Faassen wrote:
But I'm sure we can find more packages to evict from the Zope Framework.
Martijn, I was just planning to split up the KGS in the next week and see what happens. But if I have a list to start out with I'll take it. :-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter Web Software Design, Development and Training Google me. "Zope Stephan Richter"
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Wednesday 04 March 2009, Martijn Faassen wrote:
But I'm sure we can find more packages to evict from the Zope Framework.
Martijn, I was just planning to split up the KGS in the next week and see what happens. But if I have a list to start out with I'll take it. :-)
Cool! Hanno posted a list, so that sounds like a starter list to me. Regards, Martijn
participants (4)
-
Christian Theune -
Hanno Schlichting -
Martijn Faassen -
Stephan Richter