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But with some good people switching channels, will Zope still end up a major player in the market?

Unfortunately from my forays into the non-Zope (or Plone) into the CMS market I dont think Zope is anywhere near a major player. I just don't understand why working on Plone is considered switching channels. When I developed the CMFZen skin was that switching channels? Is Squishdot?

I can only wonder and speculate why it's not a major player in the market. I've been around long enough in the industry to see free products such as winamp, MIRC, Linux, PK-Zip and others that have actually become like standards in their areas. I equate switching products to switching channels because look how CMFZen is changing, and what in the hell ever happened to Swishdot?!? Please don't get me wrong, products like squishdot, CMFZen, and others have steered me towards Zope. They are fine examples of the things that make Zope appealing. But if you really think about what I'm saying you might understand my meaning. Zope-->is to MTV and Plone --> is to VH1. Squishdot--> is to CMT. Now this analogy is not a hard and fast rule, so you can mix and match whatever Music television stations are in your area to whatever zope product you like. The point is they are all music stations, and some even try to be more. I believe MTV is the number one worldwide. Now I'm relating Zope to MTV back when it was new and first came out. It was all music 24 hours a day. First it was pop/rock and then they added like Rap and other styles. Next thing you know you have other "music" stations that cater to specific niche groups. Even if you have a picture in picture(PIP) television can you really comfortably watch two stations at once? No, so if you watch, support and become a fan of Country Music Television, how much time is taken away from the original MTV? Imho until Zope has achieved the market share and the place where is should be, Then the other stations(products) become more valuable as alternatives.

Whenever I speak to anyone about Plone I mention Zope in the first sentence.

Lets now examine that sentence, aha but you mention Plone before you mention Zope? ;-) It was at first tricky to get the Zen of Zope. Then you had to learn the Zen of CMF, Now there is a need for the Zen of Plone. I got two old sayings, one is I think some people might be "Putting the cart before the horse" and "Too many cooks, spoil the broth" <snip>

Perhaps, but how will you know until you try? There's more than one reason a project goes under and in some ways Plone is quite different.

That's what they all say. I've tried, but to say the least Plone is an ambitious project. But I have to agree with Erik how much or how little are you planning on porting to a stock zope/cmf product with what you do with Plone?

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I smell commecial interest here. I smell people trying to make that one killer project hoping to make it big, instead of centering around the one vehicle that will help make a bunch of projects big someday.

I won't deny it. I believe I can sell Plone and I'm not sure I can sell Zope as easily. Its a simple fact that I have to sell what the clients want: if I spend all my time concetrating on Zope innards, I doubt I'll be able to pay the mortgage. In the last 3 months 75% of my clients have come to me for Plone, in one case I steered them to a solution in Zope because I felt it was a more appropriate solution.

All I can say is selling products such as Plone, medzope,or whatever makes sense for sure. Even if it's just consulting gigs for the Free versions. But if I can guess what the market will do, then the market will either open-source or make free their products to stop any serious damage to their share of the market. Right now they are like Microsoft. As long as they are making money why give it away free? Only time will tell. Btw I'm just trying to present alternative ideas on the table. Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com