Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zope.file/trunk/ Update package mailing list address. Remove zpkg stuff.
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Dan Korostelev <nadako@gmail.com> wrote:
Log message for revision 97423: Update package mailing list address. Remove zpkg stuff.
Deleted: zope.file/trunk/src/zope/file/zope.file-configure.zcml =================================================================== --- zope.file/trunk/src/zope/file/zope.file-configure.zcml 2009-03-02 16:09:01 UTC (rev 97422) +++ zope.file/trunk/src/zope/file/zope.file-configure.zcml 2009-03-02 16:38:27 UTC (rev 97423) @@ -1 +0,0 @@ -<include package="zope.file"/>
I believe people still use the ZCML "slug" files like the above. -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Benji York wrote:
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Dan Korostelev <nadako@gmail.com> wrote:
Log message for revision 97423: Update package mailing list address. Remove zpkg stuff.
Deleted: zope.file/trunk/src/zope/file/zope.file-configure.zcml =================================================================== --- zope.file/trunk/src/zope/file/zope.file-configure.zcml 2009-03-02 16:09:01 UTC (rev 97422) +++ zope.file/trunk/src/zope/file/zope.file-configure.zcml 2009-03-02 16:38:27 UTC (rev 97423) @@ -1 +0,0 @@ -<include package="zope.file"/>
I believe people still use the ZCML "slug" files like the above.
They certainly aren't related to 'zpkg'. The intent of the slugs was to allow for something like 'sites-available' / 'sites-enabled' (the pattern in a stock Debian Apache2 install). I think it is particularly unfortunate to remove support for explicit, granular configuration at the same time as folks seem to be jumping to implicit (aka "majyk") tools. Please revert this part of the change. Tres. - -- =================================================================== Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJrBIu+gerLs4ltQ4RArBSAKDZjWeQPStzXjtnyDUcBpB2kWTxOgCfcNQO J5ocqql0fkyFShEQD1ofQTg= =WWX+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
2009/3/2 Tres Seaver <tseaver@palladion.com>:
-<include package="zope.file"/> I believe people still use the ZCML "slug" files like the above.
They certainly aren't related to 'zpkg'. The intent of the slugs was to allow for something like 'sites-available' / 'sites-enabled' (the pattern in a stock Debian Apache2 install).
I think it is particularly unfortunate to remove support for explicit, granular configuration at the same time as folks seem to be jumping to implicit (aka "majyk") tools.
Please revert this part of the change.
I just reverted the change, however, I don't think that the "slug" files are useful anymore. They were used when we had "the zope3 application server" and we plugged some components into it, like sites are plugged into debian apache/nginx setups, but now-a-days, when it seems that most people just build their own applications using their custom app configuration files, I don't think that there's much sense for package-includes for including components like zope.file. I can think of a use for package-includes for some CMS application that include "website configuration" (like debian apache), but not the "component configuration". -- WBR, Dan Korostelev
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Dan Korostelev <nadako@gmail.com> wrote:
2009/3/2 Tres Seaver <tseaver@palladion.com>:
-<include package="zope.file"/> I believe people still use the ZCML "slug" files like the above.
They certainly aren't related to 'zpkg'. The intent of the slugs was to allow for something like 'sites-available' / 'sites-enabled' (the pattern in a stock Debian Apache2 install).
I think it is particularly unfortunate to remove support for explicit, granular configuration at the same time as folks seem to be jumping to implicit (aka "majyk") tools.
Please revert this part of the change.
I just reverted the change, however, I don't think that the "slug" files are useful anymore.
I cannot see similar slugs in other packages either. -- Baiju M
Baiju M wrote:
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Dan Korostelev <nadako@gmail.com> wrote:
2009/3/2 Tres Seaver <tseaver@palladion.com>:
-<include package="zope.file"/> I believe people still use the ZCML "slug" files like the above. They certainly aren't related to 'zpkg'. The intent of the slugs was to allow for something like 'sites-available' / 'sites-enabled' (the pattern in a stock Debian Apache2 install).
I think it is particularly unfortunate to remove support for explicit, granular configuration at the same time as folks seem to be jumping to implicit (aka "majyk") tools.
Please revert this part of the change. I just reverted the change, however, I don't think that the "slug" files are useful anymore.
I cannot see similar slugs in other packages either.
Agreed. I don't understand Tres's or Benji's point either; thanks to buildout we've left such slugs long behind us I thought. Typically people would symlink these into an old old installation of Zope 3 (or copy them over). Explicit granular configuration isn't broken at all; if you want to explicitly include zope.file, you include its configure.zcml, not its "zope.file-configure.zcml". Unless Tres comes back with some convincing explanation soon, please do get rid of this stuff. Regards, Martijn
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Martijn Faassen wrote:
Baiju M wrote:
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Dan Korostelev <nadako@gmail.com> wrote:
2009/3/2 Tres Seaver <tseaver@palladion.com>:
-<include package="zope.file"/> I believe people still use the ZCML "slug" files like the above. They certainly aren't related to 'zpkg'. The intent of the slugs was to allow for something like 'sites-available' / 'sites-enabled' (the pattern in a stock Debian Apache2 install).
I think it is particularly unfortunate to remove support for explicit, granular configuration at the same time as folks seem to be jumping to implicit (aka "majyk") tools.
Please revert this part of the change. I just reverted the change, however, I don't think that the "slug" files are useful anymore. I cannot see similar slugs in other packages either.
Agreed. I don't understand Tres's or Benji's point either; thanks to buildout we've left such slugs long behind us I thought. Typically people would symlink these into an old old installation of Zope 3 (or copy them over).
Explicit granular configuration isn't broken at all; if you want to explicitly include zope.file, you include its configure.zcml, not its "zope.file-configure.zcml".
Unless Tres comes back with some convincing explanation soon, please do get rid of this stuff.
Those files exist to allow for a use case we may have abandoned, which is allowing packages to be installed in such a way that a tool could help users enable / disable their configurations, without mutating something like 'site.zcml'. The folks who might have that usecase are those who package zope3 components for deployment outside buildout (as .deb / .rpm, etc.) I don't know if there is such an audience; Benji also pointed out that he thought there were such folks. My initial reaction to Dan's removal was that the checkin message ("remove zpkg stuff") had nothing to do with that particular change: 'zpkg' was entirely separate from slugs. Tres. - -- =================================================================== Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJrxCW+gerLs4ltQ4RAlKOAJ4iMu+SQUceUq0w5Fh9+bmBNeALlACfTPAG N2Uc9sTzSBFXvy2Vh5LGw/g= =13vt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hi there, Tres Seaver wrote: [snip]
Those files exist to allow for a use case we may have abandoned, which is allowing packages to be installed in such a way that a tool could help users enable / disable their configurations, without mutating something like 'site.zcml'. The folks who might have that usecase are those who package zope3 components for deployment outside buildout (as .deb / .rpm, etc.)
True. Perhaps Brian Sutherland could tell us? I could certainly imagine automation that generated such slugs automatically and I don't believe such slugs exist many of our packages, so I suspect the use case has been abandoned quite a while ago.
I don't know if there is such an audience; Benji also pointed out that he thought there were such folks. My initial reaction to Dan's removal was that the checkin message ("remove zpkg stuff") had nothing to do with that particular change: 'zpkg' was entirely separate from slugs.
That's true, it's unrelated. Let's see whether any of this audience will speak up and say they're still using slugs. I think that still shouldn't stop us from *still* getting rid of them, but let's gather a bit more information first. If we get no information, we should certainly get rid of them. I also took this opportunity to record our decision concerning ZPKG stuff (which isn't slugs, I'll record that separately when we reach a decision). Regards, Martijn
Hey, Since nobody spoke up in favor of ZCML slugs, I'm going to record an official policy they can be removed. Regards, Martijn
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> wrote:
Since nobody spoke up in favor of ZCML slugs, I'm going to record an official policy they can be removed.
+1 -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Tres Seaver <tseaver@palladion.com> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Baiju M wrote:
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Dan Korostelev <nadako@gmail.com> wrote:
2009/3/2 Tres Seaver <tseaver@palladion.com>:
> -<include package="zope.file"/> I believe people still use the ZCML "slug" files like the above. They certainly aren't related to 'zpkg'. The intent of the slugs was to allow for something like 'sites-available' / 'sites-enabled' (the pattern in a stock Debian Apache2 install).
I think it is particularly unfortunate to remove support for explicit, granular configuration at the same time as folks seem to be jumping to implicit (aka "majyk") tools.
Please revert this part of the change. I just reverted the change, however, I don't think that the "slug" files are useful anymore. I cannot see similar slugs in other packages either.
Agreed. I don't understand Tres's or Benji's point either; thanks to buildout we've left such slugs long behind us I thought. Typically people would symlink these into an old old installation of Zope 3 (or copy them over).
Explicit granular configuration isn't broken at all; if you want to explicitly include zope.file, you include its configure.zcml, not its "zope.file-configure.zcml".
Unless Tres comes back with some convincing explanation soon, please do get rid of this stuff.
Those files exist to allow for a use case we may have abandoned, which is allowing packages to be installed in such a way that a tool could help users enable / disable their configurations, without mutating something like 'site.zcml'. The folks who might have that usecase are those who package zope3 components for deployment outside buildout (as .deb / .rpm, etc.)
I don't know if there is such an audience; Benji also pointed out that he thought there were such folks.
I don't doubt there are still at least a few, but I also don't think we are supporting that use case very well moving forward. We just need to make an explicit decision to drop support, and then we can remove the slug files.
My initial reaction to Dan's removal was that the checkin message ("remove zpkg stuff") had nothing to do with that particular change: 'zpkg' was entirely separate from slugs.
Same here. -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation
2009/3/5 Benji York <benji@zope.com>:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Tres Seaver <tseaver@palladion.com> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Baiju M wrote:
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Dan Korostelev <nadako@gmail.com> wrote:
2009/3/2 Tres Seaver <tseaver@palladion.com>:
>> -<include package="zope.file"/> > I believe people still use the ZCML "slug" files like the above. They certainly aren't related to 'zpkg'. The intent of the slugs was to allow for something like 'sites-available' / 'sites-enabled' (the pattern in a stock Debian Apache2 install).
I think it is particularly unfortunate to remove support for explicit, granular configuration at the same time as folks seem to be jumping to implicit (aka "majyk") tools.
Please revert this part of the change. I just reverted the change, however, I don't think that the "slug" files are useful anymore. I cannot see similar slugs in other packages either.
Agreed. I don't understand Tres's or Benji's point either; thanks to buildout we've left such slugs long behind us I thought. Typically people would symlink these into an old old installation of Zope 3 (or copy them over).
Explicit granular configuration isn't broken at all; if you want to explicitly include zope.file, you include its configure.zcml, not its "zope.file-configure.zcml".
Unless Tres comes back with some convincing explanation soon, please do get rid of this stuff.
Those files exist to allow for a use case we may have abandoned, which is allowing packages to be installed in such a way that a tool could help users enable / disable their configurations, without mutating something like 'site.zcml'. The folks who might have that usecase are those who package zope3 components for deployment outside buildout (as .deb / .rpm, etc.)
I don't know if there is such an audience; Benji also pointed out that he thought there were such folks.
I don't doubt there are still at least a few, but I also don't think we are supporting that use case very well moving forward. We just need to make an explicit decision to drop support, and then we can remove the slug files.
Can we have an "official desicion from The Steering Group" on that?
My initial reaction to Dan's removal was that the checkin message ("remove zpkg stuff") had nothing to do with that particular change: 'zpkg' was entirely separate from slugs.
Same here.
Well, I simply didn't mention the removal of zcml slug, I know that it's not related to zpkg. -- WBR, Dan Korostelev
Hey, Dan Korostelev wrote: [snip]
Well, I simply didn't mention the removal of zcml slug, I know that it's not related to zpkg.
Bunch of nitpickers we are. :) Anyway, removing zcml slugs is now official policy. Carry on! Regards, Martijn
participants (5)
-
Baiju M -
Benji York -
Dan Korostelev -
Martijn Faassen -
Tres Seaver