Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator
To: zope-checkins@zope.org Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:47:31 -0500 (EST) From: chrism@digicool.com (Chris McDonough) Subject: [Zope-Checkins] CVS: Zope2 - UnTextIndex.py:1.33.2.9
Update of /cvs-repository/Zope2/lib/python/SearchIndex In directory korak:/home/chrism/sandboxes/2_3Branch/lib/python/SearchIndex
Modified Files: Tag: zope-2_3-branch UnTextIndex.py Log Message: Changed default query operator to 'AND' instead of 'OR' (way improved search results).
This strikes me as a Very Bad Thing. Not the idea of having AND be the default query operator, but the fact of *changing* the default. If I remember correctly the default is documented (insofar as it is documented) as being AND, but the default has been OR for so long that I'm sure there are many sites that will break if this change is committed to a release. Worse, the behavior of a site as seen by end users will change. Finally, it is my experience that most search engines use OR as the default operator. I prefer AND myself, but OR appears to be something of a defacto standard. I'm willing to be convinced, though <grin>. A way to set the default would be cool, but might open up a can of worms. --RDM
"R. David Murray" wrote:
To: zope-checkins@zope.org Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:47:31 -0500 (EST) From: chrism@digicool.com (Chris McDonough) Subject: [Zope-Checkins] CVS: Zope2 - UnTextIndex.py:1.33.2.9
Update of /cvs-repository/Zope2/lib/python/SearchIndex In directory korak:/home/chrism/sandboxes/2_3Branch/lib/python/SearchIndex
Modified Files: Tag: zope-2_3-branch UnTextIndex.py Log Message: Changed default query operator to 'AND' instead of 'OR' (way improved search results).
This strikes me as a Very Bad Thing. Not the idea of having AND be the default query operator, but the fact of *changing* the default. If I remember correctly the default is documented (insofar as it is documented) as being AND, but the default has been OR for so long that I'm sure there are many sites that will break if this change is committed to a release. Worse, the behavior of a site as seen by end users will change. Finally, it is my experience that most search engines use OR as the default operator. I prefer AND myself, but OR appears to be something of a defacto standard.
I'm willing to be convinced, though <grin>.
A way to set the default would be cool, but might open up a can of worms.
--RDM
I'm a little torn between being alarmed at this and agreeing with it. I think if this is done there should be an TTW interface in ZCatalog to switch between AND and OR as the default. That would be the best solution IMHO. Also a _documented_ way to switch it in Catalog as well. My $0.02 -- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | cduncan@kaivo.com `------------------>
It's so broken with OR for large datasets that the search results are virtually meaningless. We see this first-hand on Zope.org (which is now ANDed after an upgrade) and in most of our consulting projects. I strongly agree that there should be an easy way to switch textindex default queries between OR and AND on a per-index basis. I'd be willing to switch it back, but gad... OR is just *so* useless. ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Casey Duncan" <cduncan@kaivo.com> To: "R. David Murray" <bitz@bitdance.com> Cc: <zope-dev@zope.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator
"R. David Murray" wrote:
To: zope-checkins@zope.org Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:47:31 -0500 (EST) From: chrism@digicool.com (Chris McDonough) Subject: [Zope-Checkins] CVS: Zope2 - UnTextIndex.py:1.33.2.9
Update of /cvs-repository/Zope2/lib/python/SearchIndex In directory
korak:/home/chrism/sandboxes/2_3Branch/lib/python/SearchIndex
Modified Files: Tag: zope-2_3-branch UnTextIndex.py Log Message: Changed default query operator to 'AND' instead of 'OR' (way improved
search results).
This strikes me as a Very Bad Thing. Not the idea of having AND be the default query operator, but the fact of *changing* the default. If I remember correctly the default is documented (insofar as it is documented) as being AND, but the default has been OR for so long that I'm sure there are many sites that will break if this change is committed to a release. Worse, the behavior of a site as seen by end users will change. Finally, it is my experience that most search engines use OR as the default operator. I prefer AND myself, but OR appears to be something of a defacto standard.
I'm willing to be convinced, though <grin>.
A way to set the default would be cool, but might open up a can of worms.
--RDM
I'm a little torn between being alarmed at this and agreeing with it. I think if this is done there should be an TTW interface in ZCatalog to switch between AND and OR as the default. That would be the best solution IMHO. Also a _documented_ way to switch it in Catalog as well.
My $0.02
-- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | cduncan@kaivo.com `------------------>
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Chris McDonough wrote:
It's so broken with OR for large datasets that the search results are virtually meaningless. We see this first-hand on Zope.org (which is now ANDed after an upgrade) and in most of our consulting projects.
I strongly agree that there should be an easy way to switch textindex default queries between OR and AND on a per-index basis.
I'd even be happy with a per catalog basis.
I'd be willing to switch it back, but gad... OR is just *so* useless. ;-)
-- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | cduncan@kaivo.com `------------------>
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Casey Duncan wrote:
It's so broken with OR for large datasets that the search results are virtually meaningless. We see this first-hand on Zope.org (which is now ANDed after an upgrade) and in most of our consulting projects.
I strongly agree that there should be an easy way to switch textindex default queries between OR and AND on a per-index basis.
I'd even be happy with a per catalog basis.
Likewise. But this is the can of worms I alluded to. Another approach would be to allow the default operator to be specified at query time <grin>. My main concern, though, is having a major behavior change happen with a release upgrade. I think this is OK as long as it is clearly documented and there is a way to get the old behavior back; in which case a per-catalog setting is sufficient. Whether the default should be AND or OR is still a point of debate, though, and one I have no clue how to resolve. --RDM
"R. David Murray" wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Casey Duncan wrote:
It's so broken with OR for large datasets that the search results are virtually meaningless. We see this first-hand on Zope.org (which is now ANDed after an upgrade) and in most of our consulting projects.
I strongly agree that there should be an easy way to switch textindex default queries between OR and AND on a per-index basis.
I'd even be happy with a per catalog basis.
Likewise. But this is the can of worms I alluded to. Another approach would be to allow the default operator to be specified at query time <grin>.
Agreed. This should be part of the ZCatalog search API in addition to the default specified. -- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | cduncan@kaivo.com `------------------>
"R. David Murray" wrote:
Likewise. But this is the can of worms I alluded to. Another approach would be to allow the default operator to be specified at query time <grin>.
That would be cool :-) FWIW, I don't think the default changing is a good idea, simple 'cos it suddenly changes how a lot of sites behave, unless their maintainers go and recode them... cheers, Chris
participants (4)
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Casey Duncan -
Chris McDonough -
Chris Withers -
R. David Murray