Hi, Launchpad started the beta tests for their mailing list offers. A while ago we discussed this option for future hosting of the mailing lists. The current implementation has the restriction that the mailing lists can not be hosted using custom domains (@zope.org). I was contacted by Barry as I'm a beta tester who is somewhat representing the Zope developers for the LP team to find out whether we're interested in starting to test their service. Any opinions? Christian PS: Here's a link to the current documentation of the service: https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- gocept gmbh & co. kg - forsterstrasse 29 - 06112 halle (saale) - germany www.gocept.com - ct@gocept.com - phone +49 345 122 9889 7 - fax +49 345 122 9889 1 - zope and plone consulting and development
On 2008-02-18 11:20:05 +0100, Christian Theune <ct@gocept.com> said:
Launchpad started the beta tests for their mailing list offers. A while ago we discussed this option for future hosting of the mailing lists.
The current implementation has the restriction that the mailing lists can not be hosted using custom domains (@zope.org).
IMHO when migrating mailing lists the addresses should not change. -- Christian Zagrodnick gocept gmbh & co. kg · forsterstrasse 29 · 06112 halle/saale www.gocept.com · fon. +49 345 12298894 · fax. +49 345 12298891
Christian Zagrodnick wrote:
On 2008-02-18 11:20:05 +0100, Christian Theune <ct@gocept.com> said:
Launchpad started the beta tests for their mailing list offers. A while ago we discussed this option for future hosting of the mailing lists.
The current implementation has the restriction that the mailing lists can not be hosted using custom domains (@zope.org).
IMHO when migrating mailing lists the addresses should not change.
I agree. I'm all for outsourcing the hosting of our mailing list, but I think it'd be a bad idea to change all the email addresses. It'll break people's settings, possibly break various archives, and so on. I think you should let them know that this this is important for us. Regards, Martijn
Hi, Martijn Faassen schrieb:
Christian Zagrodnick wrote:
On 2008-02-18 11:20:05 +0100, Christian Theune <ct@gocept.com> said:
Launchpad started the beta tests for their mailing list offers. A while ago we discussed this option for future hosting of the mailing lists.
The current implementation has the restriction that the mailing lists can not be hosted using custom domains (@zope.org).
IMHO when migrating mailing lists the addresses should not change.
I agree. I'm all for outsourcing the hosting of our mailing list, but I think it'd be a bad idea to change all the email addresses. It'll break people's settings, possibly break various archives, and so on. I think you should let them know that this this is important for us.
I'll update them to say we'll wait until we can use our own domain. Christian -- gocept gmbh & co. kg - forsterstrasse 29 - 06112 halle (saale) - germany www.gocept.com - ct@gocept.com - phone +49 345 122 9889 7 - fax +49 345 122 9889 1 - zope and plone consulting and development
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Christian Theune wrote:
Hi,
Martijn Faassen schrieb:
Christian Zagrodnick wrote:
On 2008-02-18 11:20:05 +0100, Christian Theune <ct@gocept.com> said:
Launchpad started the beta tests for their mailing list offers. A while ago we discussed this option for future hosting of the mailing lists.
The current implementation has the restriction that the mailing lists can not be hosted using custom domains (@zope.org). IMHO when migrating mailing lists the addresses should not change. I agree. I'm all for outsourcing the hosting of our mailing list, but I think it'd be a bad idea to change all the email addresses. It'll break people's settings, possibly break various archives, and so on. I think you should let them know that this this is important for us.
I'll update them to say we'll wait until we can use our own domain.
Can somebody please actually make the case for this, before we decide? Here are a couple of things I don't know about the plan: - What ongoing costs (bandwidth, mostly) are we incurring (covered by ZC, probably) to run the mailman out of our own hardware. - Will existing administrators and moderators be able to continue working with lists as easily as currently (preferably, they shouldn't even notice the change). - Will any URLs (list archives, info pages, whatever) break? - Will we be able to create new lists as easily (or more) as we can now? - What will the "switching costs" be in both directions? - Are there other advantages we should consider? All this derives from my sense that moving our issue collectors to Launchpad has been only a very minor win: - Mail-in resoponses are the best feature. - The Launchpad folks have added the 'full transcript" feature we requested. - However, thg content is no longer "ours" in terms of URL space. - We are subject to maintenance windoes which are not under our control (having the content go offline completely for hours at a pop, without even degrading to a read-only copy, is a pretty big lose). - The "switching cost" problem is still not solved for the collectors, either, Note that I'm not bashing the choice to move the collectors: I do want us to think harder about going further down that path, however. Tres. - -- =================================================================== Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHwa2c+gerLs4ltQ4RAs5vAJ9GL24YWK0d6pGgcoMKJSHhGh0SZgCeO5pW pxJNpbkiclANTUaEECHMknw= =dbEs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Feb 24, 2008, at 12:47 PM, Tres Seaver wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Christian Theune wrote:
Hi,
Martijn Faassen schrieb:
Christian Zagrodnick wrote:
On 2008-02-18 11:20:05 +0100, Christian Theune <ct@gocept.com> said:
Launchpad started the beta tests for their mailing list offers. A while ago we discussed this option for future hosting of the mailing lists.
The current implementation has the restriction that the mailing lists can not be hosted using custom domains (@zope.org). IMHO when migrating mailing lists the addresses should not change. I agree. I'm all for outsourcing the hosting of our mailing list, but I think it'd be a bad idea to change all the email addresses. It'll break people's settings, possibly break various archives, and so on. I think you should let them know that this this is important for us.
I'll update them to say we'll wait until we can use our own domain.
I'll note that I don't care about this. I'm for taking them up on their offer in either case.
Can somebody please actually make the case for this, before we decide?
I'm unsure which "this" you are referring to.
Here are a couple of things I don't know about the plan:
- What ongoing costs (bandwidth, mostly) are we incurring (covered by ZC, probably) to run the mailman out of our own hardware.
Where "our" own is ZC's own. Since no one at ZC has complained about this, I assume this isn't a big deal. I can ask if anyone wants me to. :) The biggest cost at this point is management of mailman and the machine. This is the real cost. Management of mailman is a PITA. The machine is a fairly old multi-use machine that is low on disk space. It consumed a fair bit of ZC operations time. Moving mailman off would reduce the load and give it plenty of space. If we weren't considering the generous launchpad offer, we'd be looking for another machine, probably outside of ZC's cluster.
- Will existing administrators and moderators be able to continue working with lists as easily as currently (preferably, they shouldn't even notice the change).
I think this is mostly me. I don't want to do this any more. I'm hoping that we can find some new moderators as part of the move. In any case, I think Launchpad is using mailman, so I don't think it administration will change much, except that Launchpad will probably do a better job of keeping mailman current and, given that they employ one of the mailman authors, are in a better position to make improvements to make things easier.
- Will any URLs (list archives, info pages, whatever) break?
I assume that, at worst, we could set up redirects.
- Will we be able to create new lists as easily (or more) as we can now?
From my POV, it will be easier. :)
- What will the "switching costs" be in both directions?
We are going to have switching costs in either case. mail.zope.org/ svn.zope.org/cvs.zope.org/download.zope.org can't handle mailman much longer. Jim -- Jim Fulton Zope Corporation
Hi, Jim Fulton schrieb:
- Will existing administrators and moderators be able to continue working with lists as easily as currently (preferably, they shouldn't even notice the change).
I think this is mostly me. I don't want to do this any more. I'm hoping that we can find some new moderators as part of the move. In any case, I think Launchpad is using mailman, so I don't think it administration will change much, except that Launchpad will probably do a better job of keeping mailman current and, given that they employ one of the mailman authors, are in a better position to make improvements to make things easier.
My first mailing included a link to the help pages of launchpad mailinglists. As I understand them, the lists are administered by creating groups and set `I want a mailinglist for this group`. Meaning: people will notice the change as it's mailman through the launchpad site. Christian -- gocept gmbh & co. kg - forsterstrasse 29 - 06112 halle (saale) - germany www.gocept.com - ct@gocept.com - phone +49 345 122 9889 7 - fax +49 345 122 9889 1 - zope and plone consulting and development
Tres Seaver wrote:
All this derives from my sense that moving our issue collectors to Launchpad has been only a very minor win:
Yeah, aside from the rather rough around the edge feel to Launchpad's bug trackers, I'll note that the only way I know to find the relevent bug tracker is to go to http://www.zope.org/Collectors/ and follow the redirector. Where *should* I be going to find the list of collectors relevent to Zope? cheers, Chris PS: That said, I *do* think moving the lists would be a good idea. I just use Google Groups when I want a mailing list for open source software now, but I guess with the bug trackers and the like already at Launchpad, it'd make sense for the Zope lists to end up there... -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
participants (6)
-
Chris Withers -
Christian Theune -
Christian Zagrodnick -
Jim Fulton -
Martijn Faassen -
Tres Seaver