Thank you for pointing out PIA. I love its syntax (a little bit too lengthly). I have another idea, right now, zope is target html-oriented output. However, it shoudl be much easier if it just publish the oodb into xml and let the xsl and javascript to do the actual job for html presentation. for example, the tree tag could be much easier if it just export the tree in a xml segment. We could develope a set of convention and tools to render the tree into html. The respond would be much faster. What can be best is zope can be more structural oriented instead of layout oriented. Rgs, kentsin