If anyone would like to illustrate ZPatterns concept, why not draw it on a piece of A4 sheet, and fax it to my jfax number at 17029739987 (US only). I will stick it on this site http://teyc.editthispage.com . (Certainly beats drawing with a mouse). I have an illustrated implementation of LoginManager already. Please contribute! Chui __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au