Zope and Python compatibility
What would the arguments be for sticking with Zope 2.1.3 for Zope 2.7? I feel most people want to use the latest and greatest versions, usually... Or? Of course, if the requirement could be 2.1.3 *or* 2.2.2, that would be nice, but is that realistic?
What would the arguments be for sticking with Zope 2.1.3 for Zope 2.7? I feel most people want to use the latest and greatest versions, usually...
Actually, most people don't care about the latest and greatest, and would prefer tried and trusted. Especially if the latest and greatest means they have to install more stuff.
Or?
Of course, if the requirement could be 2.1.3 *or* 2.2.2, that would be nice, but is that realistic?
In practice, Zope 2.6(.x) already fulfills this requirement, it's only that ZC doesn't have the resources to guarantee it. I think 2.7 would be in the same boat. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
From: "Guido van Rossum" <guido@python.org>
In practice, Zope 2.6(.x) already fulfills this requirement, it's only that ZC doesn't have the resources to guarantee it. I think 2.7 would be in the same boat.
OK, then I would preferr that 2.1.3 should be the officially supported, just like with 2.6, because most people who run 2.2.2 and see that 2.1.3 is required, will try anyway, but if you are on 2.1.3 and see that 2.2.2 is required, you might get cold feet.
On Monday 13 January 2003 09:56 am, Guido van Rossum wrote:
What would the arguments be for sticking with Zope 2.1.3 for Zope 2.7? I feel most people want to use the latest and greatest versions, usually...
Actually, most people don't care about the latest and greatest, and would prefer tried and trusted. Especially if the latest and greatest means they have to install more stuff.
Or?
Of course, if the requirement could be 2.1.3 *or* 2.2.2, that would be nice, but is that realistic?
In practice, Zope 2.6(.x) already fulfills this requirement, it's only that ZC doesn't have the resources to guarantee it. I think 2.7 would be in the same boat.
FYI, the current CVS head (to be 2.7) now requires 2.2.2 as per an earlier papal edict. So there will be at least some work involved in making it run under 2.1.3. I kindof feel like we already made a rather firm commitment to *requiring* 2.2.x. I did not fully agree with that decision at the time, but to renig on it now seems fairly counterproductive unless someone can provide a really good reason. I personally feel like Zope should run on 2.2.x whether required or not. Requiring 2.2.x does have the advantage of limiting the possible blessed configurations on which Zope will run, thereby making development, support and bug fixing that much easier. Otherwise I can see having to develop on Python 2.1.x and test on 2.1.x and 2.2.x. It would be nice not to have to do this when developing 2.7 only code. I realize that this would be necessary when backporting things to 2.6. -Casey
FYI, the current CVS head (to be 2.7) now requires 2.2.2 as per an earlier papal edict. So there will be at least some work involved in making it run under 2.1.3.
I know. It's not much work, and I have already volunteered to do it. Jim has explicitly undone that decision and told me it's Brian's call now.
I kindof feel like we already made a rather firm commitment to *requiring* 2.2.x. I did not fully agree with that decision at the time, but to renig on it now seems fairly counterproductive unless someone can provide a really good reason.
I also did not agree at the time. I don't see how it can be counterproductive to change a broken decision.
I personally feel like Zope should run on 2.2.x whether required or not. Requiring 2.2.x does have the advantage of limiting the possible blessed configurations on which Zope will run, thereby making development, support and bug fixing that much easier.
I *also* volunteer to make sure that *to the limits of my knowledge* Zope 2.7 indeed continues to run under Python 2.2.2.
Otherwise I can see having to develop on Python 2.1.x and test on 2.1.x and 2.2.x. It would be nice not to have to do this when developing 2.7 only code. I realize that this would be necessary when backporting things to 2.6.
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
On Monday 13 January 2003 7:46 pm, Casey Duncan wrote:
I personally feel like Zope should run on 2.2.x whether required or not. Requiring 2.2.x does have the advantage of limiting the possible blessed configurations on which Zope will run, thereby making development, support and bug fixing that much easier.
Im not sure thats true. Having less strict version requirements means that there will be *more* *people* doing the development, support, and bug fixing. -- Toby Dickenson http://www.geminidataloggers.com/people/tdickenson
On Monday 13 January 2003 7:46 pm, Casey Duncan wrote:
I personally feel like Zope should run on 2.2.x whether required or not. Requiring 2.2.x does have the advantage of limiting the possible blessed configurations on which Zope will run, thereby making development, support and bug fixing that much easier.
[Toby]
Im not sure thats true. Having less strict version requirements means that there will be *more* *people* doing the development, support, and bug fixing.
Hm. My experience with Zope 3 is that if developers can choose different Python versions, it's quite easy for version-dependent bugs to creep in, and it can take a while to track these down. For example, Zope 3 currently has some unit test suite failures that only occur on Python 2.3, and the only developer who knows the broken code well enough to fix them has no time to maintain both the 2.2.2 and the 2.3 code. So I'm (now) convinced that we should pick one Python version and stick with it, and not worry (too much) about failures with later Python versions. But it's Brian's call, and unless he agrees to switch back to 2.1.3, this is moot. In the mean time I ask not to use Python 2.2 features like bool gratuitously. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
Hi all - There has been some discussion lately regarding whether or not the next Zope feature release (2.7) should require Python 2.2.2 or not. For background, this is something that was already on the project plan, with the idea being that it would be easier to backport interesting things from Zope 3 if Zope 2.7 were based on Python 2.2. I'd like to make the edict that the plan stands, and 2.7 will be based on Python 2.2.2. The decision is based on several things: - Even though some of the specific backporting efforts that got this on the plan in the first place have stalled, it would still be nice for backporting to be *possible* to a near-term Zope 2.x release - Release cycles never go as quickly as you want them to, and historically a couple of second-dot releases a year is a lot :) Putting off Python 2.2 support until 2.8 could mean putting it off for longer than I think we'd want, especially considering the rapid progress Z3 is making. As Z3 continues to mature, I expect there will be more desire to backport certain things. Note that after the work has been done to assess Python 2.2.2 with Zope, it should be possible to "bless" Python 2.2.2 as a supported platform for a Zope 2.6.x release as well. This means that: - Zope 2.7 would "require" Python 2.2.2 (code can contain 2.2-isms), and binary distributions would include it. - Zope 2.6.x would support both 2.1.2 and 2.2.2 (but the code would contain no 2.2-isms). Brian Lloyd brian@zope.com V.P. Engineering 540.361.1716 Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com
participants (6)
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Brian Lloyd -
Casey Duncan -
Chris Withers -
Guido van Rossum -
Lennart Regebro -
Toby Dickenson