Re: [Zope-dev] case insensitive sorts
Chris Withers writes:
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Andy McKay writes:
.... what does anyone else think....
I would not like it.
Why not? ;-) I would not like to see this sort order in the management screens, because I use capitalization to ensure that essential objects are at the top of the object list.
Dieter
But thats a result of the sorting... anyway I have in and tree patched, I'll post them tonight when I get home and let people do what they want. -- Andy McKay, Developer. ActiveState. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dieter Maurer" <dieter@handshake.de> To: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> Cc: <zope-dev@zope.org> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] case insensitive sorts
Chris Withers writes:
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Andy McKay writes:
.... what does anyone else think....
I would not like it.
Why not? ;-) I would not like to see this sort order in the management screens, because I use capitalization to ensure that essential objects are at the top of the object list.
Dieter
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Dieter Maurer wrote:
Chris Withers writes:
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Andy McKay writes:
.... what does anyone else think....
I would not like it.
Why not? ;-) I would not like to see this sort order in the management screens, because I use capitalization to ensure that essential objects are at the top of the object list.
Hmmm... that's like saying you'd rather not have a memory leak fixed because it gives you an excuse to buy more RAM ;-) *grinz* Chris
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Chris Withers writes:
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Andy McKay writes:
.... what does anyone else think....
I would not like it.
Why not? ;-) I would not like to see this sort order in the management screens, because I use capitalization to ensure that essential objects are at the top of the object list.
Hmmm... that's like saying you'd rather not have a memory leak fixed because it gives you an excuse to buy more RAM ;-)
*grinz*
Chris
I would have said its like saying your not going to fix the hole in your water pipe because you use it to fill up your kettle without getting out of bed, and if you fixed it then you would have to walk to the sink. :-) Needless to say I agree with Chris. -Andy
Andy Dawkins wrote:
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Chris Withers writes:
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Andy McKay writes:
.... what does anyone else think....
I would not like it.
Why not? ;-) I would not like to see this sort order in the management screens, because I use capitalization to ensure that essential objects are at the top of the object list.
Hmmm... that's like saying you'd rather not have a memory leak fixed because it gives you an excuse to buy more RAM ;-)
[snip]
I would have said its like saying your not going to fix the hole in your water pipe because you use it to fill up your kettle without getting out of bed, and if you fixed it then you would have to walk to the sink.
[snip] I have to agree with Dieter here that a useful side affect is lost if the sort was case insensitive. I myself found it a bit strange at first, but now I am using different naming rules for different objects so they mingle together. (i.e. Interface level objects get caps, logic level objects don't). Your analogies imply that this behavior is a bug or an unintended flaw in the design. I would argue that it is intentional. Unix file systems work the same way. Try doing an "ls" with mixed case files and you'll see what I mean. Anyhow if this goes away, I think the management interface would need to have ability to sort by something other than id to compensate. To a certain degree a sort by meta type would be similar for me, but certainly less flexible, and wouldn't help compensate for the scaling problems of the ZMI. It just goes to show how even obscure and subtle features like this can be important (to some at least). At least now you have the flexibility to not use this "feature" by using the same naming conventions for everything. -- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | cduncan@kaivo.com `------------------>
Your analogies imply that this behavior is a bug or an unintended flaw in the design. I would argue that it is intentional. Unix file systems work the same way. Try doing an "ls" with mixed case files and you'll see what I mean.
It isn't a flaw. It seems as though it was overlooked. The sort on text works by sorting the data by its ascii value. Capital letters have a lower ascii value than lower case letters. i.e. A-Z = 65 - 90 a-z = 97 - 122 The arguement is that the sort should probably go.... AaBbCcDdEeFf.....etc -Andy
Andy Dawkins wrote:
Your analogies imply that this behavior is a bug or an unintended flaw in the design. I would argue that it is intentional. Unix file systems work the same way. Try doing an "ls" with mixed case files and you'll see what I mean.
It isn't a flaw. It seems as though it was overlooked.
The sort on text works by sorting the data by its ascii value. Capital letters have a lower ascii value than lower case letters. i.e. A-Z = 65 - 90 a-z = 97 - 122
The arguement is that the sort should probably go.... AaBbCcDdEeFf.....etc
-Andy
My point is that the sorting is intentionally Unix-like and case sensitive on purpose. Not due to laziness. But, perhaps the reason Unix is like that to begin with is due to laziness anyhow 8^). We'll never know for sure. -- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | cduncan@kaivo.com `------------------>
My main point is that the user who visits my site does not care about python, Unix, NT or any wierd metaphors about kettles. They want information fast and most users expect case insensitive sorts. Its simpler and easy. I think having the ignore_case option for a -tree and -in helps Zope by increasing the ease of development and friendliness to the user. -- Andy McKay, Developer. ActiveState. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Casey Duncan" <cduncan@kaivo.com> To: "Andy Dawkins" <andyd@nipltd.com> Cc: <zope-dev@zope.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] case insensitive sorts
Andy Dawkins wrote:
Your analogies imply that this behavior is a bug or an unintended flaw in the design. I would argue that it is intentional. Unix file systems work the same way. Try doing an "ls" with mixed case files and you'll see what I mean.
It isn't a flaw. It seems as though it was overlooked.
The sort on text works by sorting the data by its ascii value. Capital letters have a lower ascii value than lower case letters. i.e. A-Z = 65 - 90 a-z = 97 - 122
The arguement is that the sort should probably go.... AaBbCcDdEeFf.....etc
-Andy
My point is that the sorting is intentionally Unix-like and case sensitive on purpose. Not due to laziness. But, perhaps the reason Unix is like that to begin with is due to laziness anyhow 8^). We'll never know for sure.
-- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | cduncan@kaivo.com `------------------>
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Andy McKay wrote:
They want information fast and most users expect case insensitive sorts. Its simpler and easy. I think having the ignore_case option for a -tree and -in helps Zope by increasing the ease of development and friendliness to the user.
And my point was that this is so universally true that the _pthyon_ sort function (which is at fault here) should be fixed :-) cheers, Chris
Hmm im actually not so sure on that. Currently you can do a sort either way, if you fix it so its only case sensitive we'll end up like Visual Basic :) Fixing python is a question for the python list and I'd be scared to ask it there... -- Andy McKay, Developer. ActiveState. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> To: "Andy McKay" <andym@activestate.com> Cc: "Casey Duncan" <cduncan@kaivo.com>; "Andy Dawkins" <andyd@nipltd.com>; <zope-dev@zope.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] case insensitive sorts
Andy McKay wrote:
They want information fast and most users expect case insensitive sorts.
Its
simpler and easy. I think having the ignore_case option for a -tree and -in helps Zope by increasing the ease of development and friendliness to the user.
And my point was that this is so universally true that the _pthyon_ sort function (which is at fault here) should be fixed :-)
cheers,
Chris
Andy McKay wrote:
Hmm im actually not so sure on that. Currently you can do a sort either way, if you fix it so its only case sensitive we'll end up like Visual Basic :)
Actually, I'd like to see it 'fixed' so it's only case insensitive: Alan betty Carl Wilbur
Fixing python is a question for the python list and I'd be scared to ask it there...
I'm sure I copied one of these messages to the python list for that very reason but it didn't get any response. Ah well, I'll copy this one there as well and see what happens ;-) cheers, Chris
participants (5)
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Andy Dawkins -
Andy McKay -
Casey Duncan -
Chris Withers -
Dieter Maurer