Hello, One of my developers just wrote a Python Method containing: while 1: print "Foo." and it happily rendered, tying up that thread indefinitely. Is this supposed to succeed? I thought Python Methods were "safe"? I am using Zope from CVS (I updated yesterday.) This is not a problem for us, really, as my guys don't generally write infinite loops (unless it's on purpose. :-)) However, I thought I would point it out in case it's a bug. --Jeff --- Jeff K. Hoffman 704.849.0731 x108 Chief Technology Officer mailto:jeff@goingv.com Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/
----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff K. Hoffman <jeff.hoffman@goingv.com>
One of my developers just wrote a Python Method containing:
while 1: print "Foo."
and it happily rendered, tying up that thread indefinitely. Is this supposed to succeed? I thought Python Methods were "safe"?
PythonMethods are "safe" in the sense that they should not allow access to or alteration of Zope objects and data without correct permissions. They are *not* "safe" in the sense of preventing deliberate (or accidental) denial of service. While it would be possible for PMs to detect and halt infinite (or at least very long) loops, this would really only help with accidental cases, and would be fairly expensive. There are so many ways to arrange for a DoS attack, most of them not fixable by the PM machinery, that I've punted on this. What would be really nice is Python machinery to assign space/time limits to a thread, so that *any* request mechanism which started consuming "too much" of your process' resources could be dealt with uniformly. Cheers, Evan @ 4-am & digicool
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Evan Simpson wrote:
PythonMethods are "safe" in the sense that they should not allow access to or alteration of Zope objects and data without correct permissions.
They are *not* "safe" in the sense of preventing deliberate (or accidental) denial of service. While it would be possible for PMs to detect and halt infinite (or at least very long) loops, this would really only help with accidental cases, and would be fairly expensive. There are so many ways to arrange for a DoS attack, most of them not fixable by the PM machinery, that I've punted on this.
What would be really nice is Python machinery to assign space/time limits to a thread, so that *any* request mechanism which started consuming "too much" of your process' resources could be dealt with uniformly.
Thanks, Evan. As I said, I just wanted to make sure this was the intended behavior. I agree, the nicest solution would be the per-thread limits you speak of. But, for now, I'll just kick the server when one of my people makes a boo-boo. While I'm on the topic, is there any way to figure out WHAT thread is stuck in a loop? ie. If this were a Python Method that only looped every third tuesday of the fifth leap year per century, is there a way for me to identify what went awol, either using the monitor, or manage_debug, or...? Preparing-for-that-third-tuesday-ly yours, --Jeff --- Jeff K. Hoffman 704.849.0731 x108 Chief Technology Officer mailto:jeff@goingv.com Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/
A number of people have expressed a desire to have XSL support in Zope. The projects I am working on also seem to be needing the application of XSL, and whilst we can (and will) use some external XSL processor, it would seem that a 'cleaner' solution would be to have XSL support directly in Zope. I originally came to want to use Zope because I needed a tool that allowed the manipulation of a persistant tree of objects; my prototype was done in XML, but it needed persistance, an interface, and a programming language, hence the use of Zope. Even having only XPath support would be an extremely usefull way for packaging up simple 'queries' on the Zope database. Ive been looking around at the Python XSL implementations and the FourThought 4suite is looking pretty damned good, especially considering their goal of eventual ODMG 2.0 support. Zope desparately needs some standards compliance, even if only for the buzzwords. The question on my mind is: how much do other people want XSL in Zope? Im willing and able to put some $$$ up for a bounty on this. Is anyone else? I guess Id also like to heard what DC has to say about this; whether they are willing to have an external group contribute/merge a key technology into their codebase, and if they have any preferences about who this group might be. --------------------------------------------------------------- Heres what Uche Ogbuji of FourThought has to say about Zope http://www.pythonjournal.com/volume1/issue2/col-intranetpython/ The Zope Dope Digital Creations, fresh from a capital infusion, has given Pythoneers their first complete native Web application platform in Zope. the "Z Object Publishing Environment". Zope is similar in scope to Cold Fusion or SilverStream, but open-source and python-powered. Zope accumulates many bits and pieces of a successful Intranet site. It incorporates a database management system with object extensions (which, unfortunately, doesn't yet support the Object Database Management Group's specifications) as well as facilities for developing template Web sites, an application framework, a CGI mechanism for handling HTTP requests for objects, an HTTP and FTP server, and a comprehensive application framework to tie it all together. Z Templates are developed using a proprietary XML-based language, the Document Template Markup Language (DTML). ZTML does make some departures from the XML community in such areas as style-sheets, but it is hoped that Digital Creations or other contributors to Zope will work to close that gap. Zope is a synthesis of Digital Creations' many earlier products, such as Bobo, Principia and PCGI. Bobo has been especially popular among Python/Web programmers, and Zope looks poised to retain the tradition. If Zope can move a bit closer towards object database and XML-processing standards, it is likely to be quite popular outside the Python community as well.
Damian Morton <morton@dennisinter.com> wrote
The question on my mind is: how much do other people want XSL in Zope? Im willing and able to put some $$$ up for a bounty on this. Is anyone else?
I am willing to put up $$$ for this also assuming it is to go Open Source. Nitin Borwankar, nitin@borwankar.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Heres what Uche Ogbuji of FourThought has to say about Zope http://www.pythonjournal.com/volume1/issue2/col-intranetpython/
The Zope Dope Digital Creations, fresh from a capital infusion, has given Pythoneers their first complete native Web application platform in Zope. the "Z Object Publishing Environment". Zope is similar in scope to Cold Fusion or SilverStream, but open-source and python-powered.
Zope accumulates many bits and pieces of a successful Intranet site. It incorporates a database management system with object extensions (which, unfortunately, doesn't yet support the Object Database Management Group's specifications) as well as facilities for developing template Web sites, an application framework, a CGI mechanism for handling HTTP requests for objects, an HTTP and FTP server, and a comprehensive application framework to tie it all together. Z Templates are developed using a proprietary XML-based language, the Document Template Markup Language (DTML). ZTML does make some departures from the XML community in such areas as style-sheets, but it is hoped that Digital Creations or other contributors to Zope will work to close that gap.
Zope is a synthesis of Digital Creations' many earlier products, such as Bobo, Principia and PCGI. Bobo has been especially popular among Python/Web programmers, and Zope looks poised to retain the tradition. If Zope can move a bit closer towards object database and XML-processing standards, it is likely to be quite popular outside the Python community as well.
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
The bounty I have in mind is for an Open Source XSL in Zope.
-----Original Message----- From: Nitin Borwankar [mailto:nitin@borwankar.com]
Damian Morton <morton@dennisinter.com> wrote
The question on my mind is: how much do other people want XSL in Zope? Im willing and able to put some $$$ up for a bounty on this. Is anyone else?
I am willing to put up $$$ for this also assuming it is to go Open Source.
Nitin Borwankar, nitin@borwankar.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Heres what Uche Ogbuji of FourThought has to say about Zope http://www.pythonjournal.com/volume1/issue2/col-intranetpython/
The Zope Dope Digital Creations, fresh from a capital infusion, has given
Pythoneers their
first complete native Web application platform in Zope. the "Z Object Publishing Environment". Zope is similar in scope to Cold Fusion or SilverStream, but open-source and python-powered.
Zope accumulates many bits and pieces of a successful Intranet site. It incorporates a database management system with object extensions (which, unfortunately, doesn't yet support the Object Database Management Group's specifications) as well as facilities for developing template Web sites, an application framework, a CGI mechanism for handling HTTP requests for objects, an HTTP and FTP server, and a comprehensive application framework to tie it all together. Z Templates are developed using a proprietary XML-based language, the Document Template Markup Language (DTML). ZTML does make some departures from the XML community in such areas as style-sheets, but it is hoped that Digital Creations or other contributors to Zope will work to close that gap.
Zope is a synthesis of Digital Creations' many earlier products, such as Bobo, Principia and PCGI. Bobo has been especially popular among Python/Web programmers, and Zope looks poised to retain the tradition. If Zope can move a bit closer towards object database and XML-processing standards, it is likely to be quite popular outside the Python community as well.
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
I'm not crossposting this, since most interested parties are likely to be on this list. This could make an interesting experiment in community action. Obviously, the best target for this sort of development would be DC. Their usual business model is built on a single client paying them for consulting against a goal. What we seem to be considering here is a consortium of users ponying up for a solution, in order to have it quickly, but with the proviso that everyone benefits. I certainly think it could work and that it would lead to a quick solution to the "problem." But it's a little like a poker game, eh? So, how to go about putting money in the pot? Can it be done right here on this list? [Damian Morton, on Fri, 10 Mar 2000] :: The bounty I have in mind is for an Open Source XSL in Zope. :: :: > -----Original Message----- :: > From: Nitin Borwankar [mailto:nitin@borwankar.com] :: > :: > :: > Damian Morton <morton@dennisinter.com> wrote :: > :: > > The question on my mind is: how much do other people want XSL in Zope? :: > > Im willing and able to put some $$$ up for a bounty on this. Is :: > anyone else? :: > :: > I am willing to put up $$$ for this also assuming it is to go :: > Open Source. :: > :: > Nitin Borwankar, :: > nitin@borwankar.com :: > :: > :: > > :: > > --------------------------------------------------------------- :: > > :: > > Heres what Uche Ogbuji of FourThought has to say about Zope :: > > http://www.pythonjournal.com/volume1/issue2/col-intranetpython/ :: > > :: > > The Zope Dope :: > > Digital Creations, fresh from a capital infusion, has given :: > Pythoneers their :: > > first complete native Web application platform in Zope. the "Z Object :: > > Publishing Environment". Zope is similar in scope to Cold Fusion or :: > > SilverStream, but open-source and python-powered. :: > > :: > > Zope accumulates many bits and pieces of a successful Intranet site. It :: > > incorporates a database management system with object extensions (which, :: > > unfortunately, doesn't yet support the Object Database :: > Management Group's :: > > specifications) as well as facilities for developing template :: > Web sites, an :: > > application framework, a CGI mechanism for handling HTTP requests for :: > > objects, an HTTP and FTP server, and a comprehensive :: > application framework :: > > to tie it all together. Z Templates are developed using a proprietary :: > > XML-based language, the Document Template Markup Language :: > (DTML). ZTML does :: > > make some departures from the XML community in such areas as :: > style-sheets, :: > > but it is hoped that Digital Creations or other contributors to :: > Zope will :: > > work to close that gap. :: > > :: > > Zope is a synthesis of Digital Creations' many earlier products, such as :: > > Bobo, Principia and PCGI. Bobo has been especially popular :: > among Python/Web :: > > programmers, and Zope looks poised to retain the tradition. If Zope can :: > > move a bit closer towards object database and XML-processing :: > standards, it :: > > is likely to be quite popular outside the Python community as well. :: > > :: > > _______________________________________________ :: > > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org :: > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope :: > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** :: > > (Related lists - :: > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce :: > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) :: > :: > :: :: :: _______________________________________________ :: Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org :: http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev :: ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** :: (Related lists - :: http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce :: http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
I'm all for this. And here comes the but. But, 4Suite is not suitable (i.e. doesn't compile) for Win32 at the moment (that's from the horses mouth, well Uche at least). There was talk of win32 binaries but they seem to never have materialised. Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damian Morton" <morton@dennisinter.com> To: <zope-dev@zope.org>; <zope@zope.org> Sent: 10 March 2000 17:20 Subject: [Zope-dev] XSL for Zope - a bounty on this?
A number of people have expressed a desire to have XSL support in Zope. The projects I am working on also seem to be needing the application of XSL, and whilst we can (and will) use some external XSL processor, it would seem that a 'cleaner' solution would be to have XSL support directly in Zope.
I originally came to want to use Zope because I needed a tool that allowed the manipulation of a persistant tree of objects; my prototype was done in XML, but it needed persistance, an interface, and a programming language, hence the use of Zope. Even having only XPath support would be an extremely usefull way for packaging up simple 'queries' on the Zope database.
Ive been looking around at the Python XSL implementations and the FourThought 4suite is looking pretty damned good, especially considering their goal of eventual ODMG 2.0 support. Zope desparately needs some standards compliance, even if only for the buzzwords.
The question on my mind is: how much do other people want XSL in Zope?
Im willing and able to put some $$$ up for a bounty on this. Is anyone else?
I guess Id also like to heard what DC has to say about this; whether they are willing to have an external group contribute/merge a key technology into their codebase, and if they have any preferences about who this group might be.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Heres what Uche Ogbuji of FourThought has to say about Zope http://www.pythonjournal.com/volume1/issue2/col-intranetpython/
The Zope Dope Digital Creations, fresh from a capital infusion, has given Pythoneers their first complete native Web application platform in Zope. the "Z Object Publishing Environment". Zope is similar in scope to Cold Fusion or SilverStream, but open-source and python-powered.
Zope accumulates many bits and pieces of a successful Intranet site. It incorporates a database management system with object extensions (which, unfortunately, doesn't yet support the Object Database Management Group's specifications) as well as facilities for developing template Web sites, an application framework, a CGI mechanism for handling HTTP requests for objects, an HTTP and FTP server, and a comprehensive application framework to tie it all together. Z Templates are developed using a proprietary XML-based language, the Document Template Markup Language (DTML). ZTML does make some departures from the XML community in such areas as style-sheets, but it is hoped that Digital Creations or other contributors to Zope will work to close that gap.
Zope is a synthesis of Digital Creations' many earlier products, such as Bobo, Principia and PCGI. Bobo has been especially popular among Python/Web programmers, and Zope looks poised to retain the tradition. If Zope can move a bit closer towards object database and XML-processing standards, it is likely to be quite popular outside the Python community as well.
_______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
I sopke to Uche today, and supposedly there are people who have had it compile under win32. Im tracking them down at the moment. 4Suite may not be suitable at the moment, but not because there arent win32 binaries.
-----Original Message----- From: Phil Harris [mailto:phil.harris@zope.co.uk] Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 4:34 PM To: Damian Morton; zope-dev@zope.org; zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] XSL for Zope - a bounty on this?
I'm all for this.
And here comes the but.
But, 4Suite is not suitable (i.e. doesn't compile) for Win32 at the moment (that's from the horses mouth, well Uche at least).
There was talk of win32 binaries but they seem to never have materialised.
Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damian Morton" <morton@dennisinter.com> To: <zope-dev@zope.org>; <zope@zope.org> Sent: 10 March 2000 17:20 Subject: [Zope-dev] XSL for Zope - a bounty on this?
A number of people have expressed a desire to have XSL support in Zope. The projects I am working on also seem to be needing the application of XSL, and whilst we can (and will) use some external XSL processor, it would seem that a 'cleaner' solution would be to have XSL support directly in Zope.
I originally came to want to use Zope because I needed a tool that allowed the manipulation of a persistant tree of objects; my prototype was done in XML, but it needed persistance, an interface, and a programming language, hence the use of Zope. Even having only XPath support would be an extremely usefull way for packaging up simple 'queries' on the Zope database.
Ive been looking around at the Python XSL implementations and the FourThought 4suite is looking pretty damned good, especially considering their goal of eventual ODMG 2.0 support. Zope desparately needs some standards compliance, even if only for the buzzwords.
The question on my mind is: how much do other people want XSL in Zope?
Im willing and able to put some $$$ up for a bounty on this. Is anyone else?
I guess Id also like to heard what DC has to say about this; whether they are willing to have an external group contribute/merge a key technology into their codebase, and if they have any preferences about who this group might be.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Heres what Uche Ogbuji of FourThought has to say about Zope http://www.pythonjournal.com/volume1/issue2/col-intranetpython/
The Zope Dope Digital Creations, fresh from a capital infusion, has given Pythoneers their first complete native Web application platform in Zope. the "Z Object Publishing Environment". Zope is similar in scope to Cold Fusion or SilverStream, but open-source and python-powered.
Zope accumulates many bits and pieces of a successful Intranet site. It incorporates a database management system with object extensions (which, unfortunately, doesn't yet support the Object Database Management Group's specifications) as well as facilities for developing template Web sites, an application framework, a CGI mechanism for handling HTTP requests for objects, an HTTP and FTP server, and a comprehensive application framework to tie it all together. Z Templates are developed using a proprietary XML-based language, the Document Template Markup Language (DTML). ZTML does make some departures from the XML community in such areas as style-sheets, but it is hoped that Digital Creations or other contributors to Zope will work to close that gap.
Zope is a synthesis of Digital Creations' many earlier products, such as Bobo, Principia and PCGI. Bobo has been especially popular among Python/Web programmers, and Zope looks poised to retain the tradition. If Zope can move a bit closer towards object database and XML-processing standards, it is likely to be quite popular outside the Python community as well.
_______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
From: "Jeff K. Hoffman" <jeff.hoffman@goingv.com>
While I'm on the topic, is there any way to figure out WHAT thread is stuck in a loop? ie. If this were a Python Method that only looped every third tuesday of the fifth leap year per century, is there a way for me to identify what went awol, either using the monitor, or manage_debug, or...?
/Control_Panel/manage_debug lists open ZODB connections, and the REQUEST that is active on that connection. So, if connections aren't freed for a long time, you can see what caused this. The info you get is: <time started> <REQUEST. (<cache size>) Martijn Pieters | Software Engineer mailto:mj@digicool.com | Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com/ | Creators of Zope http://www.zope.org/ | The Open Source Web Application Server ---------------------------------------------
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000, Martijn Pieters wrote:
From: "Jeff K. Hoffman" <jeff.hoffman@goingv.com>
While I'm on the topic, is there any way to figure out WHAT thread is stuck in a loop? ie. If this were a Python Method that only looped every third tuesday of the fifth leap year per century, is there a way for me to identify what went awol, either using the monitor, or manage_debug, or...?
/Control_Panel/manage_debug lists open ZODB connections, and the REQUEST that is active on that connection. So, if connections aren't freed for a long time, you can see what caused this.
The info you get is:
<time started> <REQUEST. (<cache size>)
That's what I was looking for. Thanks Martijn. --Jeff --- Jeff K. Hoffman 704.849.0731 x108 Chief Technology Officer mailto:jeff@goingv.com Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/
participants (7)
-
Evan Simpson -
Jeff K. Hoffman -
Martijn Pieters -
morton＠dennisinter.com -
Nitin Borwankar -
Patrick Phalen -
Phil Harris