[ZF] Re: Use launchpad ! (was Re: [Zope3-dev] the maintenance of change logs)

[Jim Fulton]

Thanks for the input.  I wonder if anyone wants to volunteer to 
spearhead a track prototype for zope.org?  One of the things I like
about Launchpad is that I don't have to do any work.  If someone is
willing to step forward and commit to a Trac implementation, I'm happy
to try it out.  I'd like to see a short-term commitment to work out how 
we'd use it.  If we liked it, I wouldn't want to switch to it without
a long-term commitment to maintain it.

Jim

Jeff Shell wrote:
> On 9/25/06, Martijn Faassen <faassen at infrae.com> wrote:
>> Baiju M wrote:
>> > On 9/22/06, Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com> wrote:
>> > <snip>
>> >> Finally, I'm experimenting with using launchpad for bugs:
>> >>
>> >>    https://launchpad.net/products/zc.buildout/+bugs
>> >>
>> >> and feature requests:
>> >>
>> >>    https://features.launchpad.net/products/zc.buildout/
>> >>
>> >> So far this is working OK. I haven't really stressed it. Launchpad
>> >> makes this very easy to set up and I don't think they are allergic to
>> >> having us create lots of projects.
>> >
>> > Let's move Zope3 issue collector to launchpad?
>> > (Once this discussion came to ZF list, I think there were more +1)
>>
>> Before we move any issue collectors to launchpad, we need a bit more
>> experience with the launchpad issue tracker and its capabilities. I'm
>> also wonder whether launchpad has good issue export facilities in case
>> we want to move to another system.
>>
>> With Tres, I think we should also explore options like Trac. I
>> personally think Trac has attractive features in the way it integrates
>> the development process into things like an issue tracker.
> 
> I love Trac. I've never installed it or used it to manage any projects
> on my own, but I find that I stay on top of open source projects more
> if they're using Trac.
> 
> On a small aesthetics side, I find Launchpad's side bars incredibly
> distracting, and I don't like looking at the page because it feels
> like there are too many things vying for my attention and I have a
> hard time really reading the text in front of me. The content gets
> squished. And then I find myself looking at all of these links and
> buttons around the page trying to figure out what has the information
> I'm interested in. The sidebar on Zope.org bothers me in the same way
> when I try to read the Zope 3 wiki - but Zope.org feels nowhere near
> as noisy as Launchpad. I'm sure their tools are great, and the hosting
> service is a good feature.
> 
> But my temper is short these days. My attention span is not: if I can
> find and read a page that's not full of distractions, I'll stay and
> read it and learn. But when there are boxes on all sides chock full of
> colors and links, reading is much harder.
> 
> A nice simple example is this nice page in SQLAlchemy's Trac wiki (a
> page I read over and over as I migrated code to 0.2):
> 
> http://www.sqlalchemy.org/trac/wiki/02Migration
> 
> It's very nice. I can read that page, print it, save it to a local
> permanent archive, etc.
> 
> There is something about Trac's feature set, implementation, and in
> how it's installed (in most cases) that make it very nice for a
> cantankerous, stressed out, often overburdened worker like me to stay
> on top of and even want to get involved (even on some small level)
> with a project - and that I can do this in small amounts of time. The
> Zope 3 wiki, collector, and even subversion browser, all feel like
> they require more of a full time job to stay involved. And if not a
> full time job, then at least some seriously set-aside time. It's very
> hard to get answers to "what's gone on recently?", "what are all of
> the bugs, and let me see and sort them quickly on some different
> criteria, and let me then see how they were fixed, and then let me
> quickly find some minor annoyance issues that I might be able to fix".
> With a Trac setup like SQLAlchemy is using, I feel like I can do this
> at home in the morning during my browse-and-drink-coffee-time. With
> the current Zope tools (and my limited experience with Launchpad's
> tools), it does not feel casual at all to keep up with everything
> going on. And that makes it hard to stay enthusiastic and energized
> about a project.
> 
> Compare:
> 
> - http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/RoadMap
> 
> - http://www.sqlalchemy.org/trac/milestone/0.3.0?by=severity
> 
> I wish there had been something like that Trac milestone page for Zope
> 3.3. Of course, it doesn't show everything going on. But it would have
> made it much easier to find out what may have been slowing the release
> down so much, and then easier to want to get involved and make it
> happen sooner.
> 
> The lack of distracting side columns, the integration of the Wiki, the
> Roadmaps/Milestones, the Subversion integration (being able to refer
> to tickets, wiki pages, etc in commit log messages and having the
> links generated in the web. [ticket:309], etc), the custom issue
> tracker reports: it's a very nice system to use, even casually.
> 
> The Timeline is like a Wiki's "Recent Changes" on crack. Except the
> crack is filled with helpful vitamins: recent wiki changes, recent
> checkins, recent issue tracker activity (bugs submitted, opened,
> closed). It just feels so much more alive.
>