[Grok-dev] Re: an 'about grok' document

[Fernando Correa Neto]

Hi,

On 3/21/07, Martijn Faassen <faassen at startifact.com> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
> > I have been going through the tutorial, saw the video tutorial from
> > Philip and I am just amazed how simple it is to build grok apps.
> > Before that I played around with Zope3 but never had time to finish
> > the simplest CRUD :)
> > Before that I used to build a few things with Zope2 and was most
> > amazed by the TTW programming :)
>
> It's great to hear Grok's working for you. Please do give us feedback
> where you think Grok could be improved.
>
> > Even though grok would not be possible without Zope3, and all the
> > credit for Zope3 should somehow be given back to them, I feel your
> > About_Grok concentrates too much on the fact it builds on top of
> > Zope3.
>
> I agree that this is a worry. I would like to write more about Grok in
> isolation to Zope 3. But I do think Zope 3 and all the features is
> brings is our main asset competing with any other web framework in
> Python. I think this history and experience is our strength.
>
> > Any one who reads the about_grok would feel it is necessary to read
> > about_zope3. And I think any one who reads an about_zope3 will be
> > overwhelmed or feel he did not get it.
>
> That would be bad. :)
>
> > I feel we need:
> > 1- To mention that grok uses zope3 (maybe saying that it allows grok
> > to exist but its extensive knowledge is not necessary for simple grok
> > programming)
> > 2- In the rest of the about_grok forget a little about zope3 just
> > mentioning the functionality
>
> Could you come up with functionality Grok offers that other (python) web
> frameworks don't offer, or don't offer as well? I want to avoid Grok
> being a 'me too!' framework.
>
> > 3- Keep on the great work on grok and its documentation/tutorials
> > 4- Work on getting a proper presentation for zope3 which right now is
> > much less appealing than grok
>
> I've worked on this in the past, but it hasn't made much progress, and I
> have to use my resources well. Right now I'm working on Grok so it's a
> lot easier to write about it.
>
> > 5- Once Zope3 presentability has improved enough to not scare away,
> > take the version of the About_Grok you wrote now and override the one
> > mentioning less Zope3.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> I think these are good ideas. Unfortunately we need step 4 to happen
> first. Step 4 isn't going to happen any time soon unless someone steps
> up and does the work.
>
> Grok, in another light, *is* in fact the project to increase the
> presentability of Zope 3. :)

I agree with that. I believe grok was made to be show the other face
of zope3 and it is doing well. Maybe in the future the grokkers will
be inteligent enought to expose every single feature of zope3 so
people don't need to go down looking for functionality.
I also belive that zope3 will always be like this because it *only*
needs to provide the architecture for frameworks like grok to live.
So if zope3 scales, grok will also scale AND make it accessible for
human beings....like Caveman ;).


Cheers,
Fernando
>
> Regards,
>
> Martijn
>
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