[ZDP] Zope docs impressions

[Tom Deprez]

Hi All,

What I propose to do : this weekend I post the whole draft on a webpage.
Then everybody (who wants to help) can read it and comment on it. When we
all agree on somthing, I'll change it on the web. OK?

Hi Rik,

>First of all - the central metaphor of the ZDP was, is and will always be
>(ahum :-\) Zen. So lets make it Zen then. 

Euhm, sorry but my english isn't that good to understand this sentence.

>About the history of the web - I liked the cgi part. What I missed 
>was a short word the various efforts there have been to mix HTML and 
>code: Server Side Includes, PHP (which I do know nothing about) and 
>ASP. Explain why they came into existence (server side code, without 
>really programming) and what their problems are:

Problem is that I don't have the proper background for making a good text
about  this.

>about the 'different layers' part:

Ok, fine by me. 

>I rather liked Michel Pelletier proposal for the 'Zen of Zope'.

I thought this was the outline of a book Michel was writing... for publishing

--

Yes, I'm back. Sorry.

Tom.

>Having been on holiday for a week, you will understand my surprise to 
>see a proper Zope book in the making. The beginnings look very 
>promising. As I was trying to read through the docs - which wasn't 
>too easy as the mail archives were corrupt (Ken fixed them now)  and 
>anyway it seems impossible to retrieve a zip-file from an archive. 
>Some remarks from a fresh reader then
>
>First of all - the central metaphor of the ZDP was, is and will 
>always be (ahum :-\) Zen. So lets make it Zen then.
>
>Some thoughts, snippets (all in outline, I'll try and spend some 
>more time on them)
>
>About the history of the web - I liked the cgi part. What I missed 
>was a short word the various efforts there have been to mix HTML and 
>code: Server Side Includes, PHP (which I do know nothing about) and 
>ASP. Explain why they came into existence (server side code, without 
>really programming) and what their problems are:
>- maintenance by full mixing of code and HTML
>- security???
>- extensibility??? (just guessing)
>Zope solves many of these problems, because it separates the many 
>tasks involved in creating and maintaining a website: 
>- providing and updating data, structured (SQL) and unstructured 
>(text and HTML)
>- programming databases (by using SQL, and possibly other 
>protocols)
>- programming scripts to perform tasks the webserver can't do by 
>itself.
>- visual design of the website
>
>Ideally these various parts are carried out by persons with different 
>abilities - so that you don't end up with a website which is just 
>designed by a programmer, or (perhaps even worse) a website which is 
>structured by a designer. [link to Z management guide]
>
>=========
>about the 'different layers' part:
>
>For reasons of organization it would seem more logical to turn around 
>the order of the three parts:
>first  ZODB: the store of objects, which can be seen as separate 
>entities, that can be linked or webbed  together in any way
>then ZORB: forming the facade of/window to the objects and 
>transforming them to views (as URLs, 'filesystem' etc)
>last ZPublisher: the way to the ORB: by (almost) every conceivable 
>protocol using Internet technology etc.
>
>I rather liked Michel Pelletier proposal for the 'Zen of Zope'. It 
>seems to me with some changes it would fit nicely as a chapter 3. 
>Let's say 
>Zen level 0.1 - 0.3 as chapter 3 (objects to dtml methods)
>Zen level 0.4 - 0.5 as chapter 4 (objects and acquisition)
>Zen level 0.7 as chapter 5 (SQL)
>Zen level 0.6, 0.8-0.9 as chapter 6 (external methods, products and 
>ZClasses) Zen level 1.0 as chapter 7 (Enlightenment)
>
>All these should have examples - right
>
>catching-up-ly-yours 
>
>Rik Hoeksta
>
>
>
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