[ZDP] Other ideas for ZBook marketing

[Dody Gunawinata]

Joe Grace wrote:
> 
> I wonder how much of that problem is chicken and egg?
> 
> I was very interested in writing parts that I needed to learn as I learned them
> (Products and ZClasses being the biggest offenders; Java integration being the
> holy grail).  However, until I'm on a genuinely productive learning curve where I
> know how to get the answers I need, I'm not going to commit to documenting any
> piece of Zope (much less augmenting Zope!!!).  There are just too many much more
> qualified people to do so.
> 

I personally found that the best way to really learn something is by
trying to explain it to others. 
By doing so, I tended to forget less of what I have learnt. Yes, on the
other hand, writing slows down the speed
on how you can learn Zope. Having a balance is not quite easy :)

Zope is powerful, and it does come at a price. Documenting Zope
thouroughly isn't going to be easy, but we must
start somewhere and build on what we have produced. Sooner or later, we
are going do finish this book. And when we
are half-way thru it, it's going to be *big*.

Dody

> For example, I've posted questions on the topics which will solve my immediate,
> urgent Zope problems and usually got no response.  When someone posts very simple
> questions (including cc's in direct reply to DC posts), no-brainers for the
> expert Zopistas, and gets no response, enthusiasm dissipates very quickly for
> writing about even the simple stuff.  The mailing list is too unpredictably
> hit-or-miss, mostly miss.  I have no way of predicting which posts get responses
> or why.  Direct mail doesn't help even for the most trivial (to an expert)
> questions.
> 
> In other words, the initial learning curve is quick since Zope has so many
> powerful features including DTML and external methods and python which are
> immediately digestible.  Then the curve gets severe.  That's the hump that I
> think is a pain: ZClasses, oodles of new features, namespace issues, scoping
> issues, goofy syntax issues, oodb issues, administration issues, authentication
> issues, membership issues (ZPT where are you?), python expertise issues, etc..
> Putting all these features together in intelligible ways is non-trivial.  The
> docs need to cover each detail in excruciating detail, warts and all.  Other docs
> need to tie it all together.  The tying it all together is not going to come from
> just one doc --- there are (guessing) too many useful variations on a theme for
> any single doc to cover them all (intelligibly).  Zope gets intellectually
> cumbersome beyond the basics (e.g., the namespace issues which have recently
> tripped up even the non-DC expert Zopistas recently on the mailing list).
> 
> I think the docs need to address the basics including gotchas and, if they're
> good enough to get people into a productive and satisfyingly paced self-learning
> mode, other documenters will likely come.  Until then, it seems hit or miss who
> has the time to commit to Zope documentation when getting basics answered is so
> iffy.
> 
> By the way, I'm not targeting anyone in particular (don't even remember who the
> DC person(s) I requested help from where) and know everyone is busy.  I also
> believe the mailing list has some excellent discussions which are very
> worthwhile.  Plus, the new Zope site will be a huge shot in the arm of
> documentation with the How-To's.  It's just that the mailing list and expert
> Zopistas are not a reliable source of information for specific questions for
> anyone trying to use Zope in a real-world situation (i.e., with some urgency)
> with real specific questions.  I hope an exhaustive How-To based FAQ will help
> remedy the problem eventually (not to mention the ZBook).
> 
> 2c,
> 
> = Joe "In Zope Hibernation" Grace =
> 
> Tom Deprez wrote:
> 
> > mmmm... it's very difficult to get some people who want to write down their
> > experiences. And even more difficult to have people who are willing to
> > write a manual of a product! Mostly people start using it. If they like it
> > they go on, if they don't like it, they move to another product. I agree,
> > that DOCUMENTATION helps people to like a product a lot! But,... to have
> > people working on it, that's damn difficult...
> >
> > When we made the first chapters of ZBook, we announced it to all the lists
> > Zope had... unfortunately we didn't get lot's of attention... nobody
> > offered himself to write a part of it... and I think that's something you
> > can't change by marketing... (and you mean by marketing: make it clear to
> > the world that we are working on Zope documentation and need help, isn't it?)
> >
> > Tom.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ZDP maillist  -  ZDP@zope.org
> > http://www.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zdp
> 
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