[ZDP] Beginners Guides

[Rik Hoekstra]

>> On the front page I would like to have just the Portals. Is it
>> unrealistic to assume that people will select their Portal
>> without a short introduction ?
>>
>> [rh]Not if they have already been there. Otherwise, an introduction is a
>> good idea. Wouldn't it be a good idea to insert texts/introductions
>> depending on the last time someone visited the homepage (using a cookie
and
>> a simple dtml-if/else), and afterwards use a link (like: more or short
>> intro) instead?
>>
>> Hm, think about this, why not make more things customizable in this way?
>> That way you can make good use of the dynamic capabilities of Zope. I'll
be
>> happy to help contributing (if i can find the time ;-))
>


[Maik:]
>I am going to concentrate on different things, but we can add this
>as a Task to the ZDP-Tools.

[rh]Any hints what to customize if I wanted to do this ;-) ?



[Chris:]
>Yup. Like all this, especially Rik's ideas for customization. This could
>mean that, eventually, experienced users would see nothing but the
>portal links.
>Maybe even narrow this down so they can show custom portal links or just
>hide links they don't use?

[rh:]All this leading up to a tailored 'documentation portal'. This is a
pile of work, however, so let's concentrate on easy things first ;-)

>
>> We should work together with Amos to make this a great resource.
>>
>> [rh] The tutorial (which is basically a canned hands-on session) is not
>> enough. Newbies also need some more 'theoretical' (read: higher level,
>> conceptual) texts to get them acquainted with Zope and it's (basic)
>> concepts: what is dtml, what can I use it for, how? What are all these
>> objects I can choose from. I have a sql database, can I connect it to
Zope?
>> How? And then. Believe me, I have seen people struggle with this.



[chris:]
>Okay so maybe extend the New Zope Users portal:
>-Quickstart: stuff already mentioned, lots of linking to the Tutorial
>-Theory: the stuff Rik mentioned above (which I think is VERY
>important...)

[maik:]
>
>I would like the Subjects and Topics contain this information. They
>should be community specific introductions with pointers to the good
>resource.
>

[rh] I'm getting lost on how all this fits together I'm afraid. Is there a
short explanation available, or can you provide one? The ZDP site is moving
to fast for me...


[maik:]
>> See his Tutorial Notes:
>>
>> http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Projects/Tutorial/TutorialNotes
>>
>> [rh] see above. Moreover, as far as I have seen it, first time users
stumble
>> blindly through the tutorial, do not know what is happening, have little
>> affinity with the subject and do not care what is happening.
>
>I have tried to separate the user groups with the portals. An Administrator
>with some Apache background should find exactly how he can use Zope to
>make it work with Apache.


[rh]OK (see below)

>
>> I think they learn best by getting somehing done. Let's try and give them
a
>> hand in  determining _what_ can be done with Zope, why Zope is good for
it
>> and how to do it. In this last part the tutorial may come in as a handy
>> illustration.
>
>This should be answered in the Prospective Zope Users and Developers Portal
!
>Here, people need to find out what Zope can do for them.
>

[rh] Would that (eventually) mean you could build up your own Portalish
thing, by specifying your topics/subjects/preferences? Or am I being carried
away here?

[Chris:]
>I agree, which is why I like the idea of a Quickstart to get this bit
>out of their system. People get frustrated very quickly if they can't
>ACHIEVE something (see Nick Petreley's recent article on Zope) but after
>they've done this they will, quite naturally, want to get some 'Zen'...
>which of course is where the theory guide comes in...
>
>...which should cover this part of Rik's comment quite comfortably:
>
>> [rh]Let's try and give them a hand in
>> determining _what_ can be done with Zope, why Zope is good for it and how
to
>> do it. In this last part the tutorial may come in as a handy
illustration.
>> MacroMedia authorware has a usable concept in help/tutorial. They have
>> reusable, annotated and extensible pieces of software for key tasks and a
>> higher level description how to integrate them.
>> In this way the tutorial could be extended.
>



[Maik:]
>So, we would have:
>
>Key Tasks: Create a simple homepage with Zope
>           Create a Guest book with Zope
>           Create a News Site like Slashdot with Zope
>
>Integration:
>           How to integrate a Database in Zope
>           How to integrate a Python Program using Zope
>
>More ideas ?
>

Ha! Not right now.... ;-)

[Chris:]
>> Yes. Hm, perhaps we should consult with Amos about this. I'll be happy to
>> contribute something.
>
>So, who's going to write the email then? ;-)
>(to be fair, I'm a bit surprised that he's not part of ZDP, or at least
>tracks the ZDP list...)
>

I believe he sometimes is (?) but mostly not. Yes, strange. Should I cook
something up?

Rik