[Zope-CMF] Newbie observation: CMF-site default skins

Pieter Bruinsma bruinsma@freemail.hu
Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:16:17 +0200


Just to add my views as a CMF newbie.

I have always had zope in the back of my mind to create a workgroup
application for a large project for which I am technically responsible. I
have developed web applications in the past (apache, perl, cgi, mysql). I
have dipped into zope a number of times and have realised its potential. Now
that I have a requirement to use it I have devoted time to understand its
capabilities and specifcally CMF.

Based on the current documentation it is very difficult to get up and
running and productive. Whilst intellectually it is very stimulating, I do
not really have the tme to be stimulated...I need to be productive. I want
to be able to create fully working prototypes TAILORED TO THE REQUIRED
TASK/CUSTOMER with the minimum of effort, i.e. I need to show the benetfits
of zope (get its foot in the door in door-to-door salesperson speak.) Once
accepted then the more sophisticated stuff can be added. I have the
opportunity to get it introduced, I would then others take over.

Information is scattered. The documention can lead you by the hand for some
of the way then make a great leap leaving you wondering where you are and a
large knowledge gap to fill somehow. Also to some degree there is the
catch-22 in that you have to be conversant in 'zope-speak' to be able to
understand it.

Zope is such a good product is that it will be accepted if it is shown to
provide benefit....but sometimes you have to persevere (for example, it took
me one full day to get zope and mysql to work on a windows platform....I
persevered and suceeded but many people will not...looking at the mailing
lists I was not the first to have the same problem.) Installing zope to talk
to mysql on windows should be a 'no-brainer' not a whole day (remember many
of us work on corporate PC networks...I cannot just install Visual Studio at
my lesiure.)

None of the above is meant to be unnecessary criticism, but more of a
feedback from somebody who would like to use the product but has the
constraints of time and customers (both their requirements and
preconceptions) to deal with.

Regards, Pieter
Budapest

----- Original Message -----
From: "P Kirk" <patrick@enterprise-hr.com>
To: <Jeffrey_Franks@i-o.com>
Cc: <zope-cmf@zope.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope-CMF] Newbie observation: CMF-site default skins


> On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 02:47:34PM -0500, Jeffrey_Franks@i-o.com wrote:
> >
> >
> Hi Jeffrey,
>
> Everyone who tries Zope comes up against the fact that you have no
> documentation that's reliable.  For example, the examples in the
> documentation on cmf.zope.org seem to relate to an earlier release which
> has dtml that is not in the present releases.
>
> The problem is, who is going to bust a gut doucmenting a product that is
> evolving as fast as CMF?  Any work risks quick obsolescence.  And CMF
> needs to do an awful lot of evolving so the problem won't go away.  In
> effect, we get it for free but pay for it with time - in my case I've
> more time than money so that's OK ;-)
>
> Patrick
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-CMF maillist  -  Zope-CMF@zope.org
> http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf
>
> See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
>
>
>