[Zope-CMF] Re: [dev] tools-as-utilities roadmap

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Tres Seaver wrote:
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> yuppie wrote:
> > Hi Tres!
> > 
> > 
> > Tres Seaver wrote:
> >> yuppie wrote:
> >>> Or do you prefer to keep things as they are over a less clean switch to 
> >>> utilities?
> >> Yes.  I'd rather get 2.1 out, even with tools-which-can't-be-utilitiies
> >> as they are, then delay.
> > 
> > I'm not just talking about CMF 2.1. I'm fine if the result of this 
> > discussion is a roadmap that starts with CMF 2.2. But if there is no 
> > realistic roadmap at all we might better revert all the 
> > tools-as-utilities changes. The few utilities we have right now are not 
> > worth the trouble. Starting the migration makes only sense if we have a 
> > plan to finish it.
> > 
> >> Note that this problem is basically due to the desire to cache the
> >> aq_chain for utilities:  if we punt on that, we can then defer this
> >> whole issue.
> > 
> > Maybe that's your reason why you didn't argue against the proposal. I 
> > consider the possibility to cache utilities just a side effect of 
> > removing the REQUEST from the wrappers.
> 
> I thought that caching was the *reason* for removing the request;
> otherwise, we could just re-wrap the tool in each 'getUtility' call and
> it would have access to the request as it does today.
> 
> > This is not about making the implementation easier. This is about 
> > defining what utilities are. If they provide self.REQUEST they become a 
> > utility-view monster that has not much in common with Zope 3 utilities. 
> > Reducing Zope 2 magic to a minimum if we use Zope 3 technology is a good 
> > thing - even if that forces us to be more explicit about required 
> > REQUEST arguments.
> 
> That's fine, but just means that we have to invent *new* utilities and
> change application code to begin calling the new APIs:  right now,
> nobody in the wild expects to pass a REQUEST to most of those methods.
> 
> Once the replacement utilities are available, we can start deprecating
> the "tool-ish" APIs.  Note that such a change is *way* too late in the
> release cycle for 2.1.

Aren't we talking about a post-2.1 roadmap now?

Wichert.

-- 
Wichert Akkerman <wichert at wiggy.net>    It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/                   It is hard to make things simple.