[Zope-dev] Zope has been Hijacked! Save Zope!

Chris Withers chrisw@nipltd.com
Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:23:22 +0000


I can't decide if this is a hoax or not :-S

Can anyone comment?

Chris

Clark O'Brien wrote:
> 
> Thanks Andrew for a heartfelt description of what is
> happening here.
> 
> It is clear that unlike the other freeware products
> like Lenux, JBoss.., Zope has lost all of the
> advantages of being a freeware product.
> 
> What I find sad is that the extreme commercialization
> of Zope is hurting Zope- this discussion list is
> censored in a way that would not be allowed for most
> commercial products.
> 
> I posted a serious bug- Zope throws an exception after
> trying to resolve a transaction conflict three times.
> The discussion was quickly moved line and I was told
> this is not a problem- Not a problem? Give me a
> break!!
> This nearly killed my application and cost me several
> weeks of work.
> 
> Those who know of these problems can write clean
> applications but these issues are kept strictly
> confidential.
> 
> To the *TRUE* open source community I would just say
> let us reclaim Zope-even if it means branching.
>                       Clark
> 
> --- Andrew Kenneth Milton <akm@theinternet.com.au>
> wrote:
> > Since I seem to be the cause of all hell breaking
> > loose over here, I thought
> > take the opportunity to respond, since I haven't
> > really been given an
> > opportunity to do that. Since this probably going to
> > be my only ever
> > posting to zope-dev, I don't feel constrained to be
> > brief in exercising my
> > right of reply.
> >
> > I'm not going to apologise for the comments I made,
> > or the manner in which I
> > made them. Those comments were made on a list run by
> > me, basically for my own
> > amusement. If I had posted either of those emails to
> > someone else's list, I'd
> > quite rightly deserve to be fried.
> >
> > I don't make money from Zope Development (I don't
> > make money), I don't
> > run a website, in fact, I don't actually use any of
> > the products I have
> > released. So it's not like I have a vested interest
> > in Zope. My fortunes don't
> > rest on the success or failure of Zope or any one of
> > its components. I live
> > in a country the size of the USA that has the
> > approximate population of
> > New York State. Even if I stood on a busy street
> > corner with a loud hailer,
> > the number of people I could actually influence
> > would be small. This makes
> > me one of the people in the trenches.
> >
> > It is the people who are in the trenches who are
> > increasingly being
> > disaffected by Zope Corp, it seems as if you're not
> > subscribed to zope-dev,
> > you have no voice, and for most people zope-dev is
> > not an appropriate forum
> > for them to be subscribed to. As some of you know, I
> > was hounded off of the
> > zope@ mailing list for suggesting that there be some
> > other mailing list
> > for more technical discussion. People were very
> > upset, because, they
> > already have a hard time getting any support. Noone
> > from Zope Corp seems
> > to monitor the list to help out. The zope list was
> > manned by people like
> > me volunteering expertise and time to help more of
> > the little people.
> >
> > A lot of those people come to the irc channel, which
> > is also rarely if
> > ever visited by anyone from Zope Corp. Most people
> > know that #zope is the
> > place to go when all else fails. The major irony of
> > this is, that most
> > of the people seeking help on #zope are working with
> > it, or consulting with
> > it, and are supported by me and others for free. We
> > are the ones that
> > deal with the 'general zope public.' We are the
> > defenders of the faith.
> >
> > The Zope Weekly News, which turned into Zope Monthly
> > News, which now
> > has not been updated since October is a joke. It
> > shows Zope Corporation's
> > attitude towards their community. It says "We don't
> > care about our community."
> > I'm sure that's not the feeling of the *individuals*
> > inside Zope Corp, I'm
> > sure it is (or I hope it is) a source of great
> > embarassment to those
> > individuals that work for Zope Corp.
> >
> > Letting your community showpiece atrophy doesn't
> > show any great passion
> > towards us, it certainly doesn't endear new users to
> > Zope. New users are
> > the only way Zope Corp is going to make more money,
> > unless of course
> > zope.org is just for us non-revenue generating
> > little fish, an inconvenience
> > associated with having Open Source software, not
> > something that promotes
> > and supports the non-paying community.
> >
> > Noone wants a standardised User Management API more
> > than me. I *want* to
> > have confidence that someone can replace any User
> > Folder with XUF, and it
> > will just work. So when I come across something that
> > says there is a
> > New User Management API, I get excited. I prepare to
> > roll up my sleeves and
> > make the necessary changes to make software I
> > contributed to the community
> > continue to work. I think we all know by now my
> > opinion on what I found,
> > the harshness of the expression of that opinion is
> > directly related to
> > the way that these days Zope Corp seems to be an
> > Ivory Tower and the way
> > they seem to treat the community at large.
> >
> > There are approximately 450 products released by
> > just over 200 people on
> > Zope.org. There are approximately 1000 'entities'
> > subscribed to this list
> > (more to the main list), I represent 0.1% of this
> > community, but, am
> > responsible (but, not soley) for 3% of the total
> > product space available.
> >
> > If people want to form an opinion of me based on one
> > email, that's your
> > right. You don't have the right to tell me, that *I*
> > don't have the right
> > to say the things I'm saying. I have earned the
> > right to make these comments,
> > I have contributed time, effort, and code, and I put
> > my money where my
> > mouth is. I'm not some backseat political observer,
> > I am in the trenches
> > I deal with the disaffected, the confused, and the
> > generally pissed off
> > every day. In my efforts, I try to help to make Zope
> > a better product.
> >
> > You would be hard pressed to find a more stalwart
> > supporter of Zope than me.
> > This doesn't mean that I have to think that
> > everything that leaves the
> > holy temple of Zope Corp is the panacea of web
> > development. My opinions
> > might be wrong, but, they're not wrong simply
> > because something was released
> > by Zope Corp, or written by some person you have
> > attached some god like
> > status to.
> >
> > I will continue to do my thing, but, the way Zope
> > Corp deals with us,
> > the little fish had better change, or there's not
> > going to be much of a
> > community left. Those of you who subscribe to
> > zope-dev who think that your
> > time is too valuable to be spent helping others,
> > well, words fail me.
> >
> > --
> > Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet|
> >        | Andrew Milton
> > The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd          |
> >        |
> > ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 |  M:+61 416
> > 022 411   | Carpe Daemon
> > PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068
> > |akm@theinternet.com.au|
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Zope-Dev maillist  -  Zope-Dev@zope.org
> > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
> > **  No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
> > (Related lists -
> >
> > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
> >  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
> http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-Dev maillist  -  Zope-Dev@zope.org
> http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
> **  No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
> (Related lists -
>  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
>  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )