[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Five and 2.9

[Martijn Faassen]

Janko Hauser wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote: 
>> There's the 'approach' and the implementation. The approach is 
>> fairly clear: a focus on baby steps to integrate into Zope 2.7. The
>>  aim is to introduce as much as possible as make sense of Zope 3 
>> facilities into Zope 2.
>> 
> Besides ourself also Christian Heimes has done a more product 
> oriented adoption of the adapter and interfaces stuff. Will it be 
> possible to use five in this way?

I do not exactly know what you mean by 'Product oriented'? Install
special Zope 2 products for adapters and interfaces? I don't see how
that is easier than just having Zope 3 installed. Christian Heimes' 
ZopeThreeForTwo product will work with Five. It's just a way to more 
easily install Zope 3 into Zope 2. Five and ZopeThreeForTwo are 
complimentary.

Anyway, the idea is to make interfaces and adapters useful for a Python
product developer. I don't think we'll move towards supporting this
stuff from the ZMI for scripter-level access any time soon, though of 
course people may surprise me. :)

>> The implementation is still flux. Though that said, things like 
>> interfaces and adapters should be stable enough (as long as Zope 3
>>  is stable in that regard), as there's really no difference between
>>  the way Five does them and the way Zope 3 does them.
>> 
>> For views, we're moving along nicely following the Zope 3 pattern.
>>  At the post-Europython sprint Stuart Bishop and I, with help from
>>  Jim, came up with a way to integrate them the right way for Zope 2
>>  objects. I'm now pretty happy with them, though some more 
>> possibilities and details are bound to change still.
>> 
>> You can now even add views to existing Zope 2 objects, without the
>>  /edit/ hack, from ZCML. That this happens by way of "Structured 
>> Monkeypatching" shouldn't concern anybody. ;)

> Will this monkeypatch be somewhat of a blessed way to include view 
> adapters into zope2? Than we can replace our current approach of 
> using view adapters in union.cms with this one. Or will this be 
> integrated into Zope 2.8 at the end?

The monkey patch only patches the objects you want to make viewable, not
the Zope 2 core traversal machinery itself.

There won't be anything of this in Zope 2.8, by the way, as matters
currently stand. Zope 2.8 is *not* planned to do any Zope 3 integration,
though parts of what it is doing (newer ZODB which allows new style
objects, etc) are certainly helpful. Zope 2.9 is another story, but what 
will happen nobody knows quite yet, and in part I'd say it depends on us. :)

Even if Zope 2.9 is going to do something quite different, the only
thing you'd need to do is rewrite your ZCML page directives to the way
Zope 2.9 prefers. Since Five page directives are extremely similar to
Zope 3's, this should be a minor step.

>> While Five is in flux, I expect the main changes you'll have to 
>> make in your applications is slightly altering some ZCML statements
>>  and possibly changing an import here and there. It also depends on
>>  who contributes what, as always. :)
>> 
> On the conference you suggested to setup a mailinglist for the 
> discussion of interface integration. Sure the main parts are done, 
> but I think it would also be nice to see, how different projects are
>  actually using the new possibilities.

Philipp and I are actually busy setting up such a mailing list and
moving the repository, and we'll announce it shortly.

> For example the usage of widgets can lead to something like a 
> layout-manager or some other tools to really integrate them into Zope
>  2 applications. I think it would also drive some more testing and 
> zope3 and further integration of other parts.
> 
> (If one has views, adapters, schemas and widgets, events are looming
>  in the corner :-)

Events I suspect are actually easier to integrate than the forms bit.

Regards,

Martijn