[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository

[Martijn Faassen]

Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
[snip]
> It is a bit like this: the zope2 community wants the zope3 technology 
> and zope3 wants the zope2 community.

I like this analysis. :)

> I think the question about the technology should be treated as such on a 
> technical level, by bridging the technical gap (Five, common 
> repositories, writing tutorials for zope2 developers, collaborating on 
> common modules, adapting zope2 concepts like TTW editing to Zope3 but 
> without reproducing the zope2 skin and templates mess, etc).
> 
> But the question about the communities involves more complicated 
> aspects, i.e. marketing issues, licenses, competition, strategies, etc. 
> The repository is not the answer. This has to be solved on a higher 
> level, Zope Foundation, updated ZPL license, ... where a social contract 
> is agreed on.

Be careful with what you're implying with words: marketing aspects more 
complicated than code, "higher level", etc. I don't necessarily agree 
with the underlying assumptions.

While I fully support efforts surrounding the Zope Foundation, I really 
think that this is not the right level to solve community issues. A 
Foundation can make social contracts all they like, for instance, but if 
people in the community don't follow them, nothing will happen.

Marketing issues and strategies are frequently happening a bit more 
subtly than you seem to say here. The difference between the "technical" 
and the "community" level is far less clear than you make it seem.

Five, for instance, is *not* just a technical project. It never has 
been. Five is a community project at least as much, to change people's 
*minds*, to merge communities, to change the shape of the Zope business, 
as much as it's to make technical changes. That's why there's talks 
given about conferences, for instance. These things go hand in hand.

Merging the repositories is also not just technical. It's clear enough 
that it's not -- the discussion in this thread is not about technical 
issues *at all*. They're about impact on the people involved in Zope 2 
and Zope 3 development.

> So let's not pretend that everything can be solved on a technological 
> level even though lots of it can ..

We're in open source. Our solutions are frequently technological *and* 
community-based. That's the point of open source. Let's not artificially 
separate the two issues.

Regards,

Martijn