[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Two visions

[Martijn Faassen]

Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> Stephan Richter wrote:
> 
>>>1) Our current vision (AFAIK) is that Zope 3 will eventually
>>>  replace Zope 2
>>>
>>>2) In an alternate vision, Zope 2 evolves to Zope 5.
>>
>>
>>As you probably know already, I am -1 on the second proposal, since it will 
>>disallow us to finally get rid of the old Zope 2 code.
> 
> Either way we're not getting rid of the old Zope 2 code for a while.

Yes, the Zope 2 codebase is going to stay. It isn't going to stay for 
everybody in all Zope related projects, and it's already quite doable to 
keep Zope 2 in the background while developing new software for Zope 2, 
but the codebase isn't going to disappear.

This doesn't mean it should be there for people who are building new 
applications.

[snip]
> I really don't think you'd have to learn Zope 2 again. As I noted in my
> short response to Jim's proposal,
> 
> a) you'll be able to continue to create web apps with just the Zed
> components. There won't be a zed.app or so, but zed.publisher would be
> the WSGI-capable publishing machinery that you can use to (given
> appropriate publication objects or whatever will be there in the future)
> publish objects using views and whatever we have not right now.
> 
> b) Zope 5 will use zed functionality all over the place. Our current
> efforts with Five are providing a good deal of this already and we're
> going to continue with that. Having to learn "Zope 2" all over again
> will probably not mean the same thing in the context of Zope 5 as it
> does right now.

Could you please stop using a new name for Zope 3 or the zope package? 
You can explain this perfectly well using the existing, well established 
names. I'll rewrite it to demonstrate this:

a) you'll be able to continue to create web apps with just the Zope 3
components. There won't be a zope.app anymore, but zope.publisher would 
be the WSGI-capable publishing machinery that you can use to (given
appropriate publication objects or whatever will be there in the future)
publish objects using views and whatever we have not right now.

This is a proposal for the evolution of Zope 3. Zope 3 is already going 
in this direction.

b) Zope 2 will use Zope 3 functionality all over the place. Our current
efforts with Five are providing a good deal of this already and we're
going to continue with that. Having to learn "Zope 2" all over again
will probably not mean the same thing in the context of Zope 2 + Five as 
it does right now.

This is what we are actually doing with Zope 2 right now, starting with 
Five on top of Zope 2.7, and continued further with Zope 2.8, Zope 2.9 
and presumably Zope 2.10 and beyond. It's nothing new, and it will take 
more effort and time to get further.

Renaming this to Zed or Zope 5 is not going to make anyone's life 
simpler or easier, nor will it make any development go faster than it 
does now. Instead we're going to confuse everybody with completely 
uncalled for name changes.

Regards,

Martijn