[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Two visions

[Tres Seaver]

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Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Max M wrote:
> 
>> Jim Fulton wrote:
>>
>>> 2) In an alternate vision, Zope 2 evolves to Zope 5.
>>
>>
>>
>> Zope 2 is complicated! It has too many layers of everything.
>>
>> The reason for Zope 3 is to make it simpler for developers.
>>
>> Therefore I believe that any succesfull strategy would require Zope 3
>> to be usable completely without all the Zope 2 layers.
>>
>> If Zope 3 becomes just another layer on top of Zope 2 -> CMF -> Plone
>> it will not reduce complexity, as any developer would still need to
>> learn the entire stack.
>>
>> Wherever practical, Zope 2 technologies should be rewritten to Zope 3
>> technologies to remove layers from the stack.
> 
> 
> I think these are good points.
> 
> Five runs the risk of being yet another layer on a stack like Plone, but
> Five also gives the chance of us stripping off these layers and
> replacing it with something cleaner, and at the same time Five is giving
> an impulse to Zope 3 development as things slowly get ported to Zope 3
> or written in a Zope 3 style.
> 
> The Five project has the right attitude to deal with such integration
> issues. We have been quite successful: In Zope 2.9 it's possible to
> build modern Zope 3-style apps, using formlib and sqlos and so on (we've
> done it).
> 
> In this vision, the Zope 3 project should stay where it is and push
> things forward. That doesn't mean Five should be ignored by Zope 3
> developers, but it should be compartmentalized in people's minds. Zope 3
> does innovation, Five does integration, and then the big codebases can
> move forward using both.

I think the other major point is the "door #2" proposal takes pressure
off of Zope3:  under that regime, Zope3 does not need to grow all the
features present in Zope2, which door #1 *does* imply.


Tres.
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Tres Seaver          +1 202-558-7113          tseaver at palladion.com
Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"    http://palladion.com
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