[Zope-dev] Why are ZClasses Dead

[Christopher Lozinski]

I keep getting these negative email messages.   Here is the most recent 
example.

 >I think you should stop dreaming and face the reality. There is almost 
nobody interested of the developer community in ZClasses.. I have no 
idea what your >goal is with your ongoing ZClasses postings..you're on 
siding and there is no way back.

My goal is to deliver maintain and expand the software my business needs 
to run.   In particular I am looking for a very very fast development 
environment, so whatever changes a client needs, I can make right away.  
So I literally do not understand why people think ZClasses are dead.   
Let me go through the possible reasons.  The last one is the real reason 
I think.

1. There is no demand for a through the web development environment that 
works.
I just don't believe that.

2. ZClasses have the following bug.
That sounds better.  That bug needs to get fixed.  I have yet to be hurt 
by a ZClass bug.  Although there are some features I now want.

3. There is no one to maintain ZClasses
Again not true, I need to do it for my own interests.   I am at the 
point where I want to upgrade ZClasses.  

4. ZClasses is a single user development environment.
That is right, and I am a single user developer.  Part time at that, I 
recruit the rest of the time.  And I am looking for some good python 
developers if you are interested.  The only reason I can do both jobs is 
that ZClasses allow me to develop my applications very fast.

5.  You have to do everything in Python Classes on the file system.  
That is the right way to do things.
Dogma has its place, but I have long since left organized religion.  OUCH!

6.  We are moving ZClasses  out of the core.
Makes sense to me.

AND HERE IS THE REAL ISSUE I THINK
7.  Because of the way Zope is written, you just cannot do ZClasses 
"right".   You would have to change zope, and break lots of things.
I think that is the core reason that some people say ZClasses are 
dead.   I am just starting to understand it.   I have been digging into 
the core of Zope.   I keep excavating lower than I have ever excavated 
before.   I would like to make a tree of classes, just like in the 
smalltalk browsers.  Zope Products manager or whatever it is called does 
not like that.   I would like  a ZClass to have a subobject for every 
instance variable, and for that instance variable to say which role can 
read, and write it, independent of where you are in the ZODB tree.   Not 
quite how Zope permissions work.   So I think the structure of Zope 
prevents ZClasses from working correctly.  Which is why ZClasses needs 
to die.  Is that correct?

Because to change the core of Zope is way too heretical.  Better for 
ZClasses to die, than to change the core of Zope 2.

Anyhow I would be grateful if any of the ZClasses-are-dead community 
would be more specific.  Which reason makes you think that ZClasses are 
dead?
Does anyone out there agree with my analysis? 

Regards
Chris