AW: [Zope-dev] AW: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev and zope-dev lists

[Andreas Jung]

--On 6. Oktober 2007 18:24:45 +0200 Roger Ineichen <dev at projekt01.ch> wrote:

> Hi Andreas
>
>> What do you man by "two development paradigms"?
>>
>> Please don't build a wall between Zope 2 and Zope 3
>> developers. Most "old-school" Zope 2 developers are doing
>> development also with Zope 3 components and Zope 3
>> techniques. Look at Plone 3.0 and its heavy usage of Zope 3
>> techniques...impressing. The Zope 3 development paradigms are
>> highly accepted by most Zope 2 core developers...we are all
>> sitting in the same boat. There is a fundamental difference
>> in the Zope 2 and Zope 3 architecture but little difference
>> between the paradigms how we should design and write software
>> on top of the Zope platform in the future.
>>
>> The distinction between Zope 2 and Zope 3 must disappear. We
>> must speak of "Zope". Everything else is counterproductive
>> when it comes to promoting Zope. There is only one Zope
>> developer community and most of us have a Zope
>> 2 and a Zope 3 hat on (others have a CMF or a Plone head). An
>> artificial separation between Zope 2 and Zope 3 developers is
>> undesirable in my opinion.
>
> You are using 7 times the term "Zope2" and 9 times "Zope 3"
> and also "Plone 3.0" in this small text. Can you try to describe
> this without "2 or 3" in "Zope *"? I guess not, right?

s/Zope 2/Zope application server
s/Zope 3/Zope components

>

> I really don't care about how it is called, but I'm sure we
> need some naming convention and since we have one, I don't see
> any reason to change this.

As said: there was a big discussion on the terms "Zope 2" and
"Zope 3" during the last DZUG conference. Bringing it to the point:
the terms "zope 2" and "zope 3" should die. There's only 'Zope'.


> You also use the term "Plone 3.0" which you implie that we
> know that you mean the Plone which uses Zope 3 components ?

>
> You are respecting the postifx 3.0 in the Plone world but
> not for Zope? why?

Plone is an application but not a framework. Plone does not have
an identify crisis as Zope.


>
> I'm a little confused and don't understand why you are lobbing
> for such a renaming and at the same time you are using this
> terms so heavy.

Why? There are much, much more applications deployed on top of the Zope 
application server than on top of the Zope component architecture. There is 
a huge installation of Plone site on top of the Zope app server and now the 
Zope component framework. Although you are a Zope component-only  developer 
you can not ignore the dependent applications and framework. The Zope 
application server core team is always in communication with the CMF and 
Plone teams (we play nicely together (mostly)) and I do expect the same
within the Zope world. The merging of the lists is just one multiple steps 
for bringing the two side together.


Andreas
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