AW: [Zope-dev] AW: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev and zope-dev lists

[Andreas Jung]

--On 6. Oktober 2007 13:40:46 -0400 Stephan Richter 
<srichter at cosmos.phy.tufts.edu> wrote:



>
>> Although you are a Zope component-only  developer
>> you can not ignore the dependent applications and framework.
>
> So you are saying I have to change Zope 3's story to cope with Zope 2's
> identity crisis? Honestly, degrading Zope 3 to a set of libraries and
> components is marketing poisoning for people deploying pure Zope 3
> applications.

Marketing  'Zope' to new people is one point. Doing "internal marketing" 
for Zope is another big problem. By "internal marketing" I mean the 
following: my major customer is one of biggest Zope 2 users in Germany. We 
use Zope in various large scale installations for internal apps, for 
portals, shops and have more 100K Zope 2 installations running on Windows
Desktops alone in Germany. I am trying to promote Zope 3 technology since 
years within our big development department. And it always comes to 
discussions and misunderstandings as soon the terms Zope 2 and Zope 3 pop up
(...is it compatible?...how can we integrate it with current apps?..and so 
on). It's not about degrading Zope 3 to whatever...it's basically about 
names and the reception of the term 'Zope'.  Accidentally Jim brought up
the same point within his posting today about what Zope 3 stands for. Zope 3
right now is both an application server and a set of components. Let's call
the component part 'Zope components' and the app server part 'Bob'.

How Grok? Grok does not compete with Zope app server since it has complete 
different name. We can tell the people "Grok is a framework for building 
webapps on top of Zope technology which implicit configuration etc...".
With Zope 2 and Zope 3 we have always the problem answering "can I run my 
Zope 2 XXX software with Zope 3"...that's why we need a clear idea about 
what 'Zope ' means. You're right.this is about marketing - both to Zope 
developers and non-Zope developers...but a clear and consistent marketing 
is absolutely necessary since we compete with other frameworks. Zope is no 
longer the top dog within the world of Python frameworks.

Andreas



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