[Zope-dev] AW: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev and zope-dev lists

[David Pratt]

Andreas Jung wrote:
> We don't need to start a discussion about the architecture. 

Apparently we do as since we are talking about zope 3's development 
forum. This is where discussions and decisions for zope 3 occur and I 
don't want this necessarily combined and heavily influenced by zope 2 
development. Zope 2 is a single application that depends on zope 3.
Both
> versions have a different history and a different architecture but they 
> serve basically the same purpose: building web apps in the first place.

Certainly the same can be said for all other applications with a 
dependency on zope 3. I would not expect these lists to be folded into 
zope3-dev or vice versa. Folks with an interest will simply subscribe to 
the lists they wish to monitor.

> And both versions play nicely together. I assume there are currently
> much more Zope 2 developers or Zope 2 developers also developing with 
> Zope 3 than pure Zope 3 developers...so it is basically having the pure 
> Zope 3 developers together with all other Zope developers. It would be 
> dangerous
> to split up both parties.

I'm not sure where you are going with this but it is disconcerting when 
you start pointing to how many folks are doing this or doing that. 
Because there are more zope 2 developers is also the reason I that folks 
that perpetuate thought and progress on the zope 3 ought to be able to 
do it without the dominating influence of any dependent project. You 
seem to make the assumption that pure zope 3 developers would want or 
welcome this influence. I see this threatening and analogous to inviting 
lobbyists in government to govern the country.

Zope 3 technologies are being used in zope 2 and things being learned 
and they play well together. Ok, that is good. Surely there can be 
dialog with zope 2 development without consuming the communication 
channels and project structures of zope 3.

I think if the tables were turned you could see the point I am making 
more clearly. You wouldn't want someone saying look "We are bigger than 
you and we're moving in. By the way were merging our development lists 
we are planning on assuming your identity also. We're now all now just 
"zope".

  Zope 2 developers need to know what's going on
> in Zope 3 _and_ vis-versa. The initial argument about more email traffic 
> on a common list is only a spurious argument. Both -dev lists mostly 
> contain posting with reasonable subjects....scanning some more mails per 
> day really is not an issue. I am also subscribed to the zope3-dev list 
> and I am not reading everything but at least watching the list gives me 
> an impression
> about current discussions and current issues that might be of interest
> for the Zope 2 world.

Yes, subscribing to the list would be appropriate but merging the lists 
is what we are talking about. The arguments you use here give me the 
impression that zope 3 is in jeopardy of being hijacked for use within 
zope 2 and rebranded 'zope'. This is not something I wish to consider 
and would sooner see zope 3 fork than see zope 3 incrementally consumed 
like this.

Regards,
David