[Zope-dev] Re: AW: Heads up: Dependencies!

[Jodok Batlogg]

On 13.04.2008, at 04:01, Tres Seaver wrote:
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> Roger Ineichen wrote:
>> Hi again
>>
>>> Betreff: [Zope-dev] Heads up: Dependencies!
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I try to do a cleaup all zope packages and found some wired
>>> dependencies and bad setup. One of this bad things is the following:
>>>
>>> The zope.dublincore package defines in setup.py
>>>
>>> install_requires = ['setuptools',
>>>                    'zope.annotation',
>>>                    'zope.component',
>>>                    'zope.interface',
>>>                    # testing dependencies
>>>                    'zope.testing',
>>>                    'zope.security',
>>>                    'zope.app.testing',
>>>                    ],
>>>
>>> I guess this is one of the packages which makes it impossible
>>> to get rid of testing stuff on production servers! right or not?
>>>
>>> This happens in 3.4.0, 3.4.0a1 was Ok.
>>>
>>> Can anybody agree that the testing dependencies should go to
>>> extra_requires ['test'] ?
>>
>> I discussed this with Benji on IRC and very bad consenus happend.
>> Benji told me that this topic was discussed and this changes
>> explicit happens.
>>
>> I totaly disagree with the concept behind this.
>> The general sentence "Test what you fly and flay what ou test"
>> is still valid and makes sense to me. But this is not what this
>> changes reflect. This changes will bring in dependencies to
>> zope.app.testing for all our production projects. This is just
>> not true. All of our apps are just working without the testing
>> dependency. Testing code is not a dependency for production servers.
>>
>> This install_requires will bring in zope.app.testing dependencies
>> for all of our production servers which is just wrong.
>>
>> Test what you fly and fly what you test is a good thing. But it
>> get totaly miss understud in this usecase.
>>
>> It doesn't mean that we can depend our tests on zope.app.rotterdam
>> for zope.dublincore just because we have a rotterdam package.
>> And even worse depend on that in install_requires.
>>
>> If a testing setup needs additional components which the package
>> doesn't need, we have two choices.
>>
>> 1. write tests wihtout thrid party code (code which is not a  
>> dependency
>>   of the package at all)
>>
>> 2. write tests and depend on third party code but move the dependency
>>   to extra_requires. This allows to install the app without the
>>   additional test dependency
>>
>> What do you think?
>
> Even better:  use the documented setuptools keyword[1]  
> 'tests_require',
> and get the testrunner / buildout to use that hook when running tests.
> An added benefit is that it might even be possible for somebody to run
> the tests from a subversion checkout / unpacked sdist without first
> running buildout, by just running 'python setup.py test'.  This last
> will require defining a workable 'test_suite' keyword, as well.
>
>
> [1] http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools#id7

test dependencies are a no-go for a production deployment.
if we are refactoring packages, we should use the setuptools keyword.

jodok

btw.: importchecker from lovely.recipe will assist you in identifying  
the imports you need for tests and for the "real" code

>
>
>
> Tres.
> - --
> ===================================================================
> Tres Seaver          +1 540-429-0999          tseaver at palladion.com
> Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"    http://palladion.com
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Jodok Batlogg, Lovely Systems GmbH
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