[Zope-dev] Defining Zope 3.

[Andrew Sawyers]

+1 with Tres' position.

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Tres Seaver <tseaver at palladion.com> wrote:

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> Martijn Faassen wrote:
> > Jim Fulton wrote:
> >> On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> >>
> >>> Simon Michael wrote:
> >>>> -1, Gary's is clearer.
> >>> I think what is clear or not is very subjective. I think that at least
> >>> is clear.
> >>
> >> I think it is clear that you are disregarding many people's opinions.
> >
> > Okay, I'll come back with a bit more rational response than my first one.
> >
> > Could you also tell me how I'm disregarding people's opinions in this
> > thread? Examples?
> >
> > Or do you think stating my own opinions and concerns, while I'm clearly
> >   (explicitly mentioned) thinking this topic through, is tantamount to
> > disregarding other people's opinions?
> >
> > Do you really think I'm in this discussion with people just to disregard
> > their opinions?
> >
> > I'm trying to consider the impact of changing a well-known well-used
> > name that carries certain expectations (different ones for different
> > people!) to something else that was set up explicitly to have different
> > expectations, namely the Zope Toolkit.
> >
> > The Zope Toolkit concept was explicitly designed to *separate* those
> > expectations from the (vague but broad) expectations surrounding Zope 3.
> > I spent quite a bit of time trying to work that out. Now we're a few
> > weeks later. It is proposed instead we rename what we called Zope 3 to
> > "Zope Toolkit" and tell everybody that the expectations changed. I've
> > expressed clearly that's an interesting approach and also clearly that I
> > have some concerns.
>
> I am -1 on pushing a "Zope3 is now the Zope Toolkit" message:  I would
> rather that we *not bring up Zope3 in public again*, while still
> enabling those who have built apps atop the un-brand to maintain them.
> If somebody asks, "Hey, what happened to Zope3?", we can explain briefly
> that the core of it is now ZTK, and that the other bits have a life of
> their own, but *without the un-brand*.
>
> To this end, I think we sholud remove all traces of the un-brand from
> prominent places on our websites, try to stay "on message" as a
> community, while re-focusing on the technical aspects of the transition
> (rather than the branding / perception ones).
>
>
> Tres.
> - --
> ===================================================================
> Tres Seaver          +1 540-429-0999          tseaver at palladion.com
> Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"    http://palladion.com
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