[Zope-dev] removing zope.app from the ZTK

[Hanno Schlichting]

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Martijn Faassen
<faassen at startifact.com> wrote:
> Hanno Schlichting wrote:
>> Not really. Zope 2.12 is exactly that transitionary release defining a
>> KGS for everything that was included in Zope 2.11 (~3.4.1).
>
> Ah, I didn't realize Zope 2.12 was already based on an earlier version
> of the ZTK. Then I guess I mean zopeapp might help people transitioning
> from 2.11 to Zope 2.13. I don't know how many people are making that
> transition.

Not many. Zope 2.11 hasn't been in much use. Arguably the largest
group of people are doing this through Plone. There the story is
different again, as the lastest stable Plone release (3.3) is based on
Zope 2.10 which included Zope 3.3.2.

Plone 4, which should see a beta release any day now, is based on Zope
2.12 (including ZTK 0.5). We'll see a number of Plone 4.x releases,
which will most likely stick to Zope 2.12. Only Plone 5 (which I
happen to be release manager of) will use a new Zope 2.13. Since Plone
is basically driving the Zope 2 release schedule these days, we'll
likely not see a new major Zope 2 release until Plone 5 alphas are
getting ready.

So the two main upgrade paths we have are Zope 3.3.2 to ZTK 0.5. And
then at some point in maybe 12 to 18 months a ZTK 0.5 to ZTK x.y
upgrade. This also means that an actual ZTK release, that is done
anywhere before late 2010 is pretty much not usable for Zope 2. If the
difference between our ZTK 0.5 release and the final version gets too
large and breaks backwards compatibility, we have another problem.

Grok's release schedule obviously looks very different from this. And
I have no idea what the schedules of any other potential users of the
ZTK might look like. Agreeing on the scope and timeframe of the or
many ZTK releases is going to be quite interesting in itself.

> I missed where you offered this list for more general reuse. If I'd
> known about it might have been useful for us working for Grok, and as a
> basis of zopeapp.
>
> I'm interested the current zopeapp to support the Grok transition and to
> help people transition Zope 3 apps. I didn't realize Zope 2 was already
> that far along having released earlier ZTK versions.

Well, we did a freeze of our ZTK KGS with our Zope 2.12 beta 2
release. This happened end of May 2009. At that point Grok was a long
way from having an actual 1.0 release, which only happened much later
facilitated by the Neanderthal sprint in September. This whole topic
wasn't really on your radar at that point. But Zope2 and Plone
couldn't wait for an indefinite time, hoping that someday the ZTK
would actually be ready.

Hanno