[Zope-dev] the Zope Framework project

[Martin Aspeli]

Chris McDonough wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I just realized the irony in this:
>>
>> [Martijn spends a lot of time in trying to solve problems in our 
>> community, bothering to consult lots of people and writing up a document]
>>
>> [Chris]
>>> I'm pretty sure a steering group and a rebranding of existing software is not
>>> going to make us more effective.  Here's what I believe would make us more
>>> effective:
>> Bam, all of Martijn's proposals shot dead entirely.
>>
>> [Chris, again]
>>> - discourage the contribution of stop energy (discourage
>>>   the utterances of "don't", "stop", "this is wrong",
>>>   "stop talking about this").
>> Chris, do you see any irony in this too?
> 
> I really do appreciate the effort, apologies if my response seemed like stop
> energy.  To be honest, I'm just not very interested in talking about solving
> Zope "brand" issues anymore.  The brand is too large, and too diffuse, and
> controlled by an entity that is not very connected to the community anymore.
> Much of the time, the positive value of the brand is often outweighed by its
> negative value.
> 
> IMO, we should just try to solve problems we actually have under whatever brand
> the problem seems to fit under best that *doesn't* have the baggage of the Zope
> name.  We have a good number of brands now (grok, repoze, plone).  These brands
> *do* have leadership and structure and forward momentum.  Let's use it.

I don't think the confusion around Zope 3, the Zope framework and the 
consumers that happen to use zope.* packages is going to go away just 
because we ignore it. I totally agree with your pragmatic approach, but 
that's something quite different.

Zope *is* a project. There's enough activity on this list and enough 
people who commit to svn.zope.org that you can't argue otherwise. And 
that project needs leadership, which is what Maritjn was really after 
solving, if I read him correctly. The naming issue is one part of that. 
Perhaps it would've been better to leave the specifics of naming out of 
the proposal and let the would-be steering group actually enact this 
type of change, but then again I don't think Martijn said anything that 
we don't all agree on, or that isn't already a "fact on the ground".

Martin

-- 
Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who
want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book