[Zope-dev] Uses of the ZTK and how it relates to management

[Jim Fulton]

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Fabio Tranchitella <kobold at kobold.it> wrote:
> * 2010-03-03 20:41, Chris McDonough wrote:
>> Why wouldn't that be worked out here?  Is it because you just want the
>> mechanics of such a project done elsewhere without having to see it
>> talked about on this maillist?  Or is it because you disagree that it
>> should be done?  Or... what?
>
> The main issue is related to the different use cases we have for the ZTK:
> some people use (or want to use) the ZTK as a monolithic set of packages
> that can be considered "somehow" the upgrade path from zope3 with the
> exclusion of zope.app.* (if possible).
>
> Others (like me and you, Chris) see the ZTK as a set of core packages
> (mainly the bicycle repair kit, which is not the only self-contained subset
> of useful packages though) plus a huge load of dependencies we are bringing
> forward from the "old" zope3 releases.

Others, like me and Martijn and probably many many others, see the ZTK
as a set of packages that can be used in various subsets and
combination.  We want as few dependencies as possible.  We also want a
configuration of versions that are known to work together because they
are tested together.  We want stability and we want processes that
will help us move forward.  I don't think the people who want to
advance Blue Bream are really all that different.

> Our points of view are totally different,

I don't think so.  Where we seem to differ is on the specific point of
change management, and especially testing.

> and I suppose the first group of
> people fear that fragmentation can influence the quality and stability of
> the ZTK as a whole.

The ZTK was created in part to deal with instability issues arising
from people working on parts without testing the whole.

> In my opinion, we can only gain defining explicitly the bicycle repair kit
> if somebody is willing to maintain it (and I refer to documentation and
> marketing stuff, not code because it is already very stable). If this
> cannot be done with consensus on zope-dev, but a group of people is really
> interested in it, I don't think it can be or should be stopped and, TBH, I
> don't see how it can influence the ZTK.

I don't think anyone is objecting to marketing efforts.

Even these core components will need maintenance and updates from time
to time.  *An* important question is how these changes will be ma
naged in the context of the larger community.

Jim

--
Jim Fulton