[Zope-dev] direction

[Martin Aspeli]

Hi,

On 5 July 2011 11:26, Tobias Helfrich <Helfrich at know-it.net> wrote:

>
> Hi Hanno
>
> > On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Tobias Helfrich
> > <Helfrich at know-it.net> wrote:
> > > OK, so you do think that we might use Zope 2.12 for a quite
> > long time
> > > without thinking about anymore updates? Will there be any security
> > > updates for Zope 2.12 in the future?
> >
> > You want to use Zope 2.13. 2.12 is at the end of its active
> > maintenance cycle as is Python 2.6 (the only Python version
> > it supports).
> >
> > Zope 2.13 brings support for Python 2.7, which is a long-term
> > maintenance release.
>
> OK, thx for the info. So we will be able to use Zope 2.13 with the
> techniques mentioned before? That will give us another two years to
> think about going on with different styles. So basically Zope 2 will
> be the framework for Plone only, because the community which is/was
> using Zope 2 for standalone individual projects has decreased to nearly
> none.


I think it would be very sad if that happened, especially since there
evidently demand from other projects.

What I think is clear is that to evolve Zope 2, we need to shed some baggage
and make some deeper changes to allow us to achieve some of our goals (e.g.
WSGI, simplified stack, simpler and more easily controllable security, less
magical traversal, more comprehensible publisher).

Plone is obviously a big consumer of Zope 2 and I would expect Plone to have
a major influence on Zope 2's evolution. But ERP5 is another big consumer,
and we shouldn't ignore that.


> So it might be a good idea to look for something completely
> different? I don't think that Plone will be able to do everything we
> want it to. Or do you think we can stick with Zope 2 but change the way
> of building applications to ZPT/TAL? So we have to get rid of all DTML
> and what about an alternative to the ZSQL Methods?


I think keeping DTML as an optional installation should be quite feasible.
It's just possibly not something that the core Zope 2 team want to maintain
anymore in the standard distribution.

ZSQL Methods may be a similar story, in fact, especially as they rely on
DTML. However, I'd encourage you to look at SQLAlchemy, which is way nicer
to work with.


> OK, i have subscribed to the mailing list today, so unfortunately
> i haven't found this sort of information anywhere else. I don't want
> to blame you or anyone else for that, but it's not nice to hear that
> right now :-(


I think there is some characteristic bluntness in Hanno's emails, but please
realise that none of this is going to happen over night, and existing
codebases are not going to magically disappear. Sometimes we have to be a
bit more radical to understand the art of the possible and build a future
platform that will support future needs. That doesn't mean there can't be
both migration paths and long-term stable versions.

Martin
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