[ZWeb] Newbie thoughts on zope.org re-org
Adrian Hungate
adrian@haqa.co.uk
Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:14:45 -0000
This is an excellant idea.
Adrian...
--
Adrian Hungate
All views expressed in this email are those of the whole world, however some
people don't realise this yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Rottermann" <robert@redcor.ch>
To: "Paul Everitt" <paul@zope.com>; "Bill Anderson" <bill@libc.org>
Cc: <Zope-web@zope.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ZWeb] Newbie thoughts on zope.org re-org
> And we could have a checkmark next to the product in the product directory
> saying the it is fit for a given version (since its tests passed)
> I agree with the concern that it is hardly possible to define accepted
> standards how to measure "quality". It is much easier to define the
> environment in which a unit test has to pass.
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Everitt" <paul@zope.com>
> To: "Bill Anderson" <bill@libc.org>
> Cc: <Zope-web@zope.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [ZWeb] Newbie thoughts on zope.org re-org
>
>
> >
> > Regarding product certification...I share Chris' concerns about how to
> > pull it off. But here's a different take...
> >
> > It's a challenge to get developers to adhere to standards. Even on
> > things like writing a little help file, writing unit tests, etc. There
> > just isn't much incentive.
> >
> > I talked with Matt Kromer here about a way to provide an incentive on
> > this. As some may know, Zope3 is being developed in a way where
> > interfaces and unit tests are written before the code. Unit tests are
> > thus an integral part of the process. In fact, zope-coders gets an
> > email every night showing the state of the Zope CVS.
> >
> > Mozilla has a similar thing, though much more sophisticated, with
> tinderbox.
> >
> > Imagine that we deeply instituted this by allowing product developers
> > that "play by the rules" to have their unit tests run on the zope.org
> > unit tester every night, with a report published to the web. That is,
> > every night zope.org would check out Zope, publish the unit test
> > results, then do the same for all participating products.
> >
> > It isn't perfect, just as unit tests are perfect. But it's useful,
> > attractive, and pretty sexy. Even better, I think it would help
> > implement the new sentiment that we all work together better.
> >
> > --Paul
> >
> > Bill Anderson wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 10:58, alan runyan wrote:
> > >
> > >>>* I feel there is a very slight bias in Zope documentation to talk
> about
> > >>>how to code and design you own products rather than how to create a
> > >>>typical usable site by plugging together whats there.
> > >>>
> > >>ZOPE in its current incarnation is really a development
> > >>toolkit/framework/whatever you want to call it. You really have to
> kinda
> > >>understand Object Oriented programming and python to 'get' ZOPE. You
> can
> > >>get fairly far with mix and match of Products. The prob is most
> Products
> > >>dont co-operate (being addressed by new architecture in Zope 3)
without
> lots
> > >>of coding.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Agreed.
> > >
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > >>>Maybe this is due to a lack of "out of the box site" type products
but
> > >>>starting with Zope I had to fight the feeling that I had to learn how
> to
> > >>>program/design with DTML and ZClasses just to put together a simple
> > >>>site. You don't want to do that when you are starting, just seeing
the
> > >>>zope management interface for the first time can be overwhelming.
> > >>>
> > >>There is a lack of OOTB sites. This could probably be solved with a
> > >>OOTB-Zope distribution. that came stock w/ RDBM adapters,
pre-installed
> > >>Products, and maybe a pre-populated ZODB.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I've thought about this *a lot*. I've been kicking around the idea of
a
> > > ZODB-Distro CD for a long, long time. It would include a customization
> > > script, and a custom (pre-populated) ZODB. If I had the default
data.fs
> > > population script, I'd probably had done it by now; it's make building
> > > custom Data.fs'es much, much easier.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>>* I'm still having problems finding Products/howtos. They are
presented
> > >>>as far too long a list and aren't easily searchable. Its a bit
> > >>>frustrating to search for a product, download it, try it out for a
> > >>>while, run into a problem, search the lists and find that the product
> > >>>has been replaced by something else (ok extreme example).
> > >>>
> > >>not really an extreme example. but I believe having some sort of
> packaging
> > >>system could help out. we should come up with a Zope OOTB Certified
> label
> > >>that can be put on Products that can be installed w/o programming
> > >>intervention. I have always been a fan of 'certifying' products.
> > >>Especially when it comes to RDBMS -- which Postgres Adapter should I
> use?
> > >>This could also lead to people being more organized on, 'things to do
to
> > >>make this product OOTB certified' .... just throwing out ideas
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is something else I've been thinking about too. At my day job,
one
> > > of my tasks is Mickeysoft certification of hardware. The though has
> > > occurred to me that ZC could do something like that, for third-party
> > > products. Something like this:
> > >
> > > o Developer creates Zope products that does nifty stuff
> > >
> > > o Developer submits product for certification to the a set of
> > > "standards", such as perhaps compliance with a Zope Standard Base
> > >
> > > o ZC charges a small fee, perhaps variable by the complexity of the
> > > app.
> > >
> > > Of course, the fee would have to be quite small initially, or at least
> > > for simpler products, otherwise it gets unused due to costs.
> > >
> > > Anyway, just some other ideas ... :)
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
> > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
> > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
> >
>
>
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