[ZWeb] Not another ___Nuke site, please

Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:29:46 +0100

> which is the business oriented brother of www.swisszope.ch
ohh I ment to say
 which is the business oriented brother of www.zope.ch

Robert

Am Montag, 13. Januar 2003 21.08 schrieb robert rottermann:
> > > To Plone or not to Plone
>
> After having worked intensively with plone sites I did write an articel=
 I
> published on DZUG which is CMF based. I'ts like going back to a long
> forgotten area.
>
> Plone is just so much better!
> However I do not believe that plone is only a bunch of skins you can ta=
ke
> or leave. I does alter the way how things are done rather profoundly. Y=
ou
> would build a site to use plone only or not use it at all.
>
> I you would see an other plone site that does not show it's parentage l=
ook
> at www.swisszope.org
> which is the business oriented brother of www.swisszope.ch
>
> Robert
>
> Am Montag, 13. Januar 2003 19.56 schrieb Jeffrey P Shell:
> > On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 09:55  AM, Ausum Studio wrote:
> > > Wow! What a busy weekend. Although many statements have already bee=
n
> > > discussed, I just want to contribute with my two cents, as a member=
 of
> > > the
> > > community commited to Zope and nzo (with ideas and time), and who
> > > firmly
> > > believes that "the world of Zope content is only as good as Zope.or=
g"
> > > (quoting Paul). Of course I'm not among the just-feature-requesters
> > > because
> > > inspired by the winds of last year efforts for nzo, I've been writi=
ng
> > > code
> > > in the sense of my suggestions. You can find info about them at the
> > > bottom
> > > of this message. Cut to the chase:
> > >
> > > The role of Zope.org
> > >
> > > Let's face it. We are competing with all sort of CMS systems out th=
ere.
> > > Many people believe like us that we are leading the OS content
> > > management
> > > game, but unfortunately the 'loosers' are getting the fans. Why is
> > > that?
> > > One possible reason is that czo isn't contributing to give people t=
he
> > > image
> > > that we have in mind when we think about Zope. Zope IS "the swiss a=
rmy
> > > knife of the web", but czo is saying it's less than any 'nukish'
> > > community
> > > system. (Please remember I'm talking about outsiders' subjective
> > > impressions).
> > > So, given the chance to upgrade it, why to conform ourselves with t=
he
> > > weblogish style? Why to resemble the accomplishments of PHPNuke, or
> > > PostNuke or AnythingNuke? Do we really need Zope to look like it wa=
s
> > > just
> > > another nukish site? I say no way.
> >
> > I say no way also - mostly because those sites, like the *dots are a
> > confusing mass of sprawling links and little information.  But there
> > are good weblogish styles out there as well.
> >
> > > What nzo could have in the context of the work already done and the
> > > timeframe we don't have
> > >
> > > I say Personalization. Let's make it all personal that it could be.=
 We
> > > know
> > > Zope delivers fine in this subject and IMHO we need to make nzo mor=
e
> > > personalizable than SF is claiming to be. Do I really  need to down=
load
> > > (and store) products that are less sized than the mean overall size=
 of
> > > the
> > > pages I'm browsing at?  Isn't it better that nzo remembers what I'v=
e
> > > already 'downloaded', so that I don't need to fill my local file sy=
stem
> > > with dozens of tiny files?
> > > Do I really need to open the whole ring of Zope sites to get to kno=
w
> > > what's
> > > going on with the community? Isn't it better to make nzo to show me
> > > relevant external content by means of advanced syndication?  If I w=
as a
> > > seasoned Zope developer, do I really need to see the "Zope is this"=
,
> > > "Download Zope here"  pieces of content, every time I open nzo?
> >
> > Yes.  Should you have to log in every time you open NZO just to avoid=
 a
> > "Download Zope Here" piece of content?  Personalization is not worth
> > it, unless it's basically a way of allowing you to track product
> > releases that are of interest to you.  But at this point, we start
> > getting into the large-volume-of-user-data issue again.  I'd like to
> > keep that issue at bay for as long as possible in hopes that it will
> > make NZO easier to migrate to Zope 3.
> >
> > I again say: look at <http://www.php.net/>.  Downloads, Documentation=
,
> > Links, Resources, etc.  I think it's much better that we help new use=
rs
> > and curious visitors answer the questions "what is Zope?", "how do I
> > use it?", and "where can I get more help?" than that we hide such
> > information from people who know the answers to those questions.
> >
> > Finally - you shouldn't have to log in in order to use the site, and
> > the site shouldn't go through dramatic changes when you do log in.  A=
nd
> > personalization shouldn't happen based on browser identification,
> > because you shouldn't have a different Zope.org experience if you're =
at
> > home or at work or at a coffee shop.
> >
> > > Zope has largely sold the concept "develop faster". I'd like to add=
 the
> > > concept "move faster throughout your site". DHTML menus has been ou=
t
> > > there
> > > for a long while but they really haven't been seized in the way a
> > > content
> > > management system would require. So at least a basic level of
> > > navigation
> > > facilitator menus-based is also a must, in my opinion.
> >
> > If a site is simple and effectively well organized, you should be abl=
e
> > to move through it quickly without needing DHTML menus.  They're a ni=
ce
> > bonus, but they shouldn't be necessary.
> >
> > > To Plone or not to Plone
> > >
> > > -1 to Plone. This is out of the scope of this message but you can r=
ead
> > > my
> > > statement on the subject as a reply to the following thread:
> > > http://www.zopezen.org/Members/huima/News_Item.2002-11-19.0150
> >
> > I've made some comments here before.  Plone, like the CMFDefault,
> > doesn't have to *look* like Plone.  Plone rounds out some of the CMF'=
s
> > potential by filling in holes (that are intentionally left open,
> > thankfully for those of us who have to build other types of content
> > sites that are not community oriented) and providing extra services
> > that the base CMF implementation doesn't provide.
> >
> > <http://www.zope.ch/> says it is powered by Plone, but I think it's a
> > much better looking site than most Plone sites tend to look.  I'm not
> > sure if it switches skins to look more Plone-ish for those who prepar=
e
> > the content, but the public side looks nice.  ZopeZen is a similar
> > story - it looks somewhat Plone-ish, but not too much.  And ZopeZen i=
s
> > more than just some replaced page-templates in the skins layer, it ad=
ds
> > and modifies some policies and services to better fit the type of sit=
e
> > that ZopeZen wants to be.  (I'm not saying Plone is ugly, but it
> > certainly doesn't fit all situations).
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Zope-web maillist  -  Zope-web@zope.org
> > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>
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