[Zope] Giving up in frustration

[Robin Becker]

In article <199908161852.LAA09903@gershwin.tera.com>, Bradford Hull
<brad@tera.com> writes
I'm not giving up, but I second this plea. The learning curve is steep
and without some real docs on Zope it is hard. What's worse is that
there are (at least for guys like me) at least two learning curves. One
is all the usual new stuff inside active servers and second is the alien
ExtensionClass/Acquisition things which modify everything I struggle to
learn about in python. A more minor thing is having to modify all my
notions about Web pages etc. I don't have a good handle on the syntax
and you've slipped through another language and now with all the XML
stuff we're about to get a third wave.
>This is unusual, I realize, but I'm going to tell you why I'm giving up on 
>Zope now.  I'm doing it because I think this thing has awesome potential, 
>but if you try to make it popular with the current documentation it will 
>sink like a rock any time a user wants to see how to input or edit data.
>
>I'm experienced, quick-witted, hard-working, dogged and persistent.  I read 
>all the available documentation until my eyes bled.  I read thousands of 
>the letters in the email forum.  I could not have made a more valid effort. 
> I finally gave in and sent the email group a plea for help, and got 
>several kind and generous answers that answered my questions, basic, 
>obvious questions, the kind nobody can get anywhere without having answers 
>to.
>
>Why could I not find those answers in all that documentation digging?
>
>The answers basically led me into another blank wall one millimeter closer 
>to my simple evaluation than I was when I started.
>
>I have learned hundreds of systems in my career, many of them quite opaque 
>and difficult.  Last week, I learned python so I could rewrite a perl 
>script that was choking on signals from child processes, and in a day I had 
>a solid, actually rather beautiful, threaded python application running 
>brilliantly for me (and a great appreciation for the language).  OK, 
>learning python is not rocket science, but this is seriously non-trivial.
>
>I have never in my life experienced a system so utterly resistant to 
>learning the basic elements you must know in order to start, as I have with 
>Zope.  I got on the Linux bandwagon when there were maybe 50,000 of us, at 
>release 0.99 patch level 5.  It was obnoxious to find the info you wanted, 
>but not like this.
>
>People!  Write some getting-started documentation!  Write an FAQ file!
>
>And for God's sake, don't write a patronizing letter about "Does Tera have 
>money to spend?" to a person who's trying to evaluate whether something is 
>worth spending money on...
>
>I hope you're hugely successful with Zope over time, but you'll lose a lot 
>more like me if you don't write down the basic assumptions some place and 
>post arrows pointing to it from everywhere.  And I tell you what: If I ever 
>have a database where I never have to put in any data, or edit any of it, 
>I'll be back in a flash...
>
>(giving-up-wistfully-and-will-check-back-regularly)-ly yours,
>

-- 
Robin Becker