[Zope] Re: reality check - The REAL issue

[Patrick Phalen]

[Brian Salisbury, on Fri, 10 Dec 1999]
:: Everyone is talking about the difficulty in using Zope and how good Docs
:: would help.  I believe, in part, documentation is just masking part of
:: the problem.  Zope is way-to-difficult to use.

HTML/HTTP is easy to use. Zope is an application server platform. Name
one *other* application server platform that is easy to use.

Some companies spend upwards of a million bucks getting a working
ColdFusion or StoryServer system. But even then, those installations
would not, IMHO, qualify as easy to use. Nor do they offer anything
near the power and flexibility of Zope.

Some companies pay consulting fees to Digital Creations to get a
working Zope system running. I'd be amazed if those companies pay
anything near what the Vignette customers do.

Real power and flexibliity come at a cost. If you could somehow download
*any* application server environment for free, push one button to
install it, and magically have a cool Web dynamic site, then it just
wouldn't *be* cool anymore, would it?

:: If you're a programmer, you can trudge through and figure out how
:: Zope works. But I'm not a programmer.

For that matter, if you're a programmer, you can build your own
application server capability from Python. Zope has DTML for those
people who don't want to get into programming -- it allows you to do
things you couldn't dream of doing with any other system -- in a
simple markup language.

:: I don't know what's going on at the code-level, and
:: frankly, I don't want to have to know.  If Zope is to truly adopt a wide
:: user base, it's got to be easy enough that the average user and install
:: and deploy Zope.  Right now, it's just to complicated for me use.  I've
:: got a business to run, I don't have time to mess around with the
:: particulars.

What on earth is an average user? If, as you say, documentation is not
"The REAL issue," then you'd seem to be suggesting that Zope is too
complex and needs to be dumbed down, presumably by hamstringing it.  Let
me be the first to vote against that. If you want something with less
complexity (and therefore less power) you may want something that isn't
Zope, like HTML/CGI, e.g.

Sorry, but I think you're wrong. I think that documentation IS "The REAL
issue."