[Zope] alot of general dc, zope, public relations questions
alan runyan
runyaga@thisbox.com
Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:08:09 -0600
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what does digicool offer for commercial products to zope? is beehive, =
code-it, and digital garage selling or making digicool of 'third party' =
products that may be of use and bought commercially?
zeo is the only product I can find listed on digicools site. how about =
commercial support for zope? by the hour? what if i just wanna buy =
chunks of functionality from you and hook it onto zope? I see database =
adapters for 'high-end' databases such as Oracle (8i?), Sybase, and =
heard DB2 is in works... what about extra pre-built functionality that =
exploits the data in these databases? does large commercial companies =
like ishophere.com d/l community products and install them and use them =
internally? use them in production? what about everyone else? =20
currently I'm looking for workflows inside an application server -> =
pre-built: author->editor->publisher workflow but something like =
siteserver w/ the transaction pipeline- where i can arrange around the =
'workflow' of web content. here is what i've come up w/ in few words: =
spectra (lots of pre-built) has lots of workflows looks like what I =
want- but it runs on coldfusion :(. vignette has workflows + oodles of =
other functionality you didnt know you needed and where too stupid to =
ask (? impression from what little i've read). frontier is complete =
customized user-talk scripting language- contains few work flow products =
but it was mentioned somewhere you could custom build them (i couldnt =
imagine having the option of custom building that). then we have zope, =
suppose to have a product (?) of some kind coming out soon (but no =
specifics) and it appears from digicool web site and one time I asked =
them what they sold they mentioend 'bug collector' and zTables, any =
ideas of putting that up on your web site? (too much to maintain)?. =
but there is no formal writings on the web site that digicool would sell =
you anything except consulting services and training.
another huge criteria is that I'm running the catalog on siteserver =
currently.. but want to mix in zope as content management (this sounds =
like perfect application for zope). but Zope cant be used w/ ASP (?is =
this TRUELY impossible?!. I dont know how it would happen, but i believe =
a solution must be possible) - which instantly kills it and pretty much =
every other product - I've looked at: except frontier and maybe vignette =
(i dont know tcl and alot more developers are geeked up other python =
than tcl). =20
anyway: I've shown some developers Zope and most can not get past the =
web site=20
--zope.org attention--
(zope.org - i personally like it.. although its getting old, visiting it =
everyday 8) design (mix of fonts, unsexy graphics, poor navigation -> =
please make Browse the DTML Reference online here. abit more obvious =
(documentation page) this should be accented w/ a graphic or much more =
pronounced text like the .tgz) =20
--/zope.org attention--
and the digicool.com web site only speaks of ZEO, and some open source =
pdfs, ang lots of press releases. NOTE: I'm sure you would rather spend =
time developing Zope than the website advertising zope.. but it needs to =
happen for marketing purposes. not HUGE, simple and slick - roxen has a =
very nice web site. Its just Zope doesnt seem like a commercial =
viability. does anyone else get that impression? =20
anyway- where is Zope going? can we look forward to y2k as the year for =
3rd party zope support? w/ digicool putting their seal of approval on =
canned products? people running Mozilla to interface into 'raw zope =
environment'? pythonmethods are incredibly neat- now that they are =
over @ D.C., any news on import :) btw: is there anything on other =
application servers ANYWHERE AS COOL as pythonmethods? or even =
pluggable brains?? (this is marketing genius term, btw) or zClasses?!?! =
how about cheap (?) or not-so-cheap prebuilt ready-to-roll products for =
zope? =20
I want to express my utter amazement and appreciation to the Digital =
Creations programming team for coming up with this gem. once its abit =
more polished - i couldnt imagine it NOT being embraced by a majority of =
web development houses.=20
and Ive yet to see any performance numbers? I dont know much about =
benchmarking zope- I have some webload software at work where i can get =
some performance numbers and post them back to the web site. I know =
that statistics can be bent to speak any 'truth' but this is only way I =
know to see how well zope does do in artifically 'stressed environment' =
- I work w/ a client that get ~10-15 million requests a day, I just dont =
think zope could keep up w/ that.. I'm most likely very wrong.. but you =
wouldnt know it by looking on the web site, honestly). I would imagine =
ishophere ran ~1 million requests/day - its not running too terribly =
many requests directly through, no? =20
please make zope sexy so my friends and the world will like it. Amos =
definetly sex'd up Zope w/ his article at xml.com
cheers,
alan runyaga@thisbox.com
p.s. if I'm out of line, by being so critical, shoot me. but these =
issues were raised by many people over my reign of advocacy at work and =
these are real world gripes - I've encountered. =20
p.p.s. are you going to make all/some/most python conference zope-based =
material and lectures available over the internet? =20
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>what does digicool offer for commercial =
products to=20
zope? is beehive, code-it, and digital garage selling or making =
digicool=20
of 'third party' products that may be of use and bought=20
commercially?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>zeo is the only product I can find listed on =
digicools=20
site. how about commercial support for zope? by the hour? =
what if i=20
just wanna buy chunks of functionality from you and hook it onto =
zope? I=20
see database adapters for 'high-end' databases such as Oracle (8i?), =
Sybase, and=20
heard DB2 is in works... what about extra pre-built functionality =
that=20
exploits the data in these databases? does large commercial =
companies like=20
ishophere.com d/l community products and install them and use them=20
internally? use them in production? what about everyone =
else? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>currently I'm looking for workflows inside an =
application=20
server -> pre-built: author->editor->publisher workflow but =
something=20
like siteserver w/ the transaction pipeline- where i can arrange around =
the=20
'workflow' of web content. here is what i've come up w/ in few=20
words:</FONT><FONT size=3D2> spectra (lots of pre-built) has lots =
of=20
workflows looks like what I want- but it runs on coldfusion :(. =
vignette=20
has workflows + oodles of other functionality you didnt know you needed =
and=20
where too stupid to ask (? impression from what little i've read). =
frontier is complete customized user-talk scripting language- contains =
few work=20
flow products but it was mentioned somewhere you could custom build them =
(i=20
couldnt imagine having the option of custom building that). then =
we have=20
zope, suppose to have a product (?) of some kind coming out soon (but no =
specifics) and it appears from digicool web site and one time I asked =
them what=20
they sold they mentioend 'bug collector' and zTables, any ideas of =
putting that=20
up on your web site? (too much to maintain)?. but there is =
no formal=20
writings on the web site that digicool would sell you anything except =
consulting=20
services and training.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>another huge criteria is that I'm running the =
catalog on=20
siteserver currently.. but want to mix in zope as content management =
(this=20
sounds like perfect application for zope). but Zope cant be =
used w/=20
ASP (?is this TRUELY impossible?!. I dont know how it would happen, but =
i=20
believe a solution must be possible) - which instantly kills it and =
pretty much=20
every other product - I've looked at: except frontier and maybe vignette =
(i dont=20
know tcl and alot more developers are geeked up other python than =
tcl). =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>anyway: I've shown some developers Zope and most can =
not get=20
past the web site </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>--zope.org attention--</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>(zope.org - i personally like it.. although its =
getting old,=20
visiting it everyday 8) design (mix of fonts, unsexy graphics, poor =
navigation=20
-> please make Browse the DTML Reference online <A=20
href=3D"http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Guides/DTML-HTML/DTML.html">her=
e</A>.=20
abit more obvious (documentation page) this should be accented =
w/ a graphic or much more pronounced text like the=20
.tgz) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>--/zope.org attention--</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>and the digicool.com web site only speaks of ZEO, =
and some=20
open source pdfs, ang lots of press releases. NOTE: I'm sure you =
would=20
rather spend time developing Zope than the website advertising zope.. =
but it=20
needs to happen for marketing purposes. not HUGE, simple and slick =
- roxen=20
has a very nice web site. Its just Zope doesnt seem like a =
commercial=20
viability. does anyone else get that impression? =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>anyway- where is Zope going? can we look =
forward to y2k=20
as the year for 3rd party zope support? w/ digicool putting their =
seal of=20
approval on canned products? people running Mozilla to=20
interface into 'raw zope environment'? pythonmethods are =
incredibly neat- now that they are over @ D.C., any news on =
import :)=20
btw: is there anything on other application servers =
ANYWHERE AS COOL=20
as pythonmethods? or even pluggable brains?? (this is marketing =
genius=20
term, btw) or zClasses?!?! how about cheap (?) or not-so-cheap =
prebuilt=20
ready-to-roll products for zope? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I want to express my utter amazement and =
appreciation to the=20
Digital Creations programming team for coming up with this=20
gem. once its abit more polished - i couldnt imagine it =
NOT=20
being embraced by a majority of web development houses. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>and Ive yet to see any performance numbers? I =
dont know=20
much about benchmarking zope- I have some webload software at work where =
i can=20
get some performance numbers and post them back to the web =
site. I=20
know that statistics can be bent to speak any 'truth' but this is only =
way I=20
know to see how well zope does do in artifically 'stressed environment' =
- I work=20
w/ a client that get ~10-15 million requests a day, I just dont think =
zope could=20
keep up w/ that.. I'm most likely very wrong.. but you wouldnt know it =
by=20
looking on the web site, honestly). I would imagine ishophere ran =
~1=20
million requests/day - its not running too terribly many requests =
directly=20
through, no? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>please make zope sexy so my friends and the world =
will like=20
it. Amos definetly sex'd up Zope w/ his article at =
xml.com</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>cheers</FONT><FONT size=3D2>,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>alan</FONT><FONT size=3D2> =
=20
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:runyaga@thisbox.com">runyaga@thisbox.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>p.s. if I'm out of line, by being so critical, shoot =
me. =20
but these issues were raised by many people over my reign of advocacy at =
work=20
and these are real world gripes - I've encountered. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>p.p.s. are you going to make all/some/most python =
conference=20
zope-based material and lectures available over the internet? =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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