[Zope] Re: E-TML ??

[Jason Cunliffe]

At 11:37 PM 12/30/99 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi, Jason! 
>
>>>>>> "JC" == Jason Cunliffe writes:
>
>JC> Hello 1. I want to be able to email dtml directly to some zopesites and
>JC> have them accept my email, parse the headers/message body so that DMTL
>JC> autmoatically will be uploaded, and/or overwritten, all without any
>JC> need to manually ever go near a web browser.
>
>JC> 2. To be able to send email to make various 'calls' to the site..
>
>1&2 look rather easy to implement:
>
>  Something like procmail to take email and run script on it.  That script
>would parse email, take the body and either put it as dtml code or use as
>xml-rpc call or do something other

Good. 
Can you think of a way to make the set up and installation of this basic
mechanism as simple as possible? 

>JC> 3. To have a bunch of Zopesites tuned to a special zopista newsgroup.
>JC> Posting to the newsgroup would allow timestamped threaded data/messages
>JC> to be parsed in correct order.
>
>Sorry, don't get that.  Can you explain further?

OK... 
1. generate a 'zope_radio' newsgroup or family of newsgroups designed to
carry several types of messages..

2. The zope_radio news posts contain: data in-line, data as attachments,
DTML, logs, and also human-admin-user text traffic [comments etc] 

3. The news post meta-types are designated either by a simple header
grammar to allow fast parsing and/or segregated by related newsgroup: for
example news://zoperadio.human, zoperadio.data, zoperadio.dtml,
zoperadio.fs etc.. 

4. All participating zope sites have a zope_radio Python External Method or
Product which embeds nntplib and other Internet goodies, with a DTML
wrapper to make useful high level calls for common functions as easy as
possible ( perhaps more like REBOL [www.rebol.com] which parses the
parameters and is smart about picking protocol and defaults )

5. Since nntp newsgroup posts are threaded at the client end, the
participating zope sites can be 'tuned' in several ways:
- 'zoperadio' news post  can be directed using url-path style headers..
those sites which don't have the corresponding path could ignore the
message or take some other not_invented_here_action to enable reception..
The channel metaphor of radio send/ receive would thus be married to the
web-object-path idea of acquisition. Let's suppose all participating
zoperadio sites have a basic folder structure such as:
yoursite.com/zoperadio/dtml ../data ../human /subscribe etc. 
- The minimum default might be to subscribe to zoperadio via a dtml
button.. this would send a post to zoperadio telling it what the /zoperadio
path structure and methods were. Zoperadio could then reply to this path
structure, calling the methods available or send others to generate a
richer site...

6. Once 'tuned' sites could use the nntp threading mechanism to sniff out
the relevant posts very quickly using minimal bandwidth. Threaded news
clients only download the data _after_ the headers have been selected. The
installed zoperadio product could send auto-status replies from local sites
back to the zoperadio newsgroup[s]. In this way the thread at
zoperadio.stats could be parsed and visualized for getting powerful
overview of zope site activity. 

7. Humans and DTML methods with the relevant permissions could rapidly
configure and post data to zope sites using the zoperadio newsgroups. 

One real advantage I see to using this nntp-zope hybrid approach is that
there are many information transactions which should not be taking up
people's time or server time. There is also a benefit I believe in using a
well-known protocol to do what it does well - serve just-in time data to
the widest possible platform. It can be handled and parsed by some many
tools and has an intrinsic threading message threading capability which
could be of great service by matching the zope-path context structure. 

Apart from the core nntp Zope Product/ExternalMethod, I think this scheme
would not need to modify zope itself further. The new added value would be
from using it in a different adaptive networked paradigm at multiple sites
using well known and global tool which is one of the bedrock foundation of
the Internet itself. 

Also storing the state sequence of a zope site without needing to transfer
or backup all the data in the ZODB.. metazope-lite if you like ;-)

The use of nntp to reflect aspect of zope sites could also spawn other
non-web applications to be used and developed. This is more in-line with
the demand now for 'internet appliances' and small wireless devices. These
mobiles could post to the zoperadio thus creating a very effective data
infrastructure bridge for input/output/feedback/rerouting.  


8. The mechanism proposed here could allow zope sites to be partly cloned
or sections of them to be routed and matched. For example if there are
sections of site A which I want to use at site B, then I could use the
zoperadio to send the structure only along with urls and keys. Site B could
use the sections of site A by using this 'thin DTML' strategy. The
zoperadio could send it the minimal path and virtual DTML without actually
needing to load and install the DTML or data itself in the ZODB. Users at
site B could be accessing site A pages and DTML within site B, by virtue of
a special acquisition path. for example:
http://siteB.com/zoperadio/virtual/siteA/myremotefolder/myremote_DTMLmethod

Effectively this would route the siteB Client to siteA.
The zoperadio could thus change the virtual DTML very quickly across many
sites. 

One obvious benefit would be ability to use more media-heavy DTML without
max-ing the 2Gb limit. 

9. Time stamping inherent in news posts would allow messages to be threaded
and thus affect the acquisition behavior. Also time series data could be
handled in an effective way. The dynamics of zope web site use could be
extended in new ways. Not just pages which are more adaptive to authoring
and personal use but whole sites which change to use...

I hope this makes some sense.

- Jason 

 

__________________________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director