[Zope] FW: [Zope] Shattered dreams...

[Shaw, Howard]

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	----------
	From:  Jim Fulton [SMTP:jim.fulton@digicool.com]
<mailto:[SMTP:jim.fulton@digicool.com]> 
	Sent:  Friday, February 12, 1999 6:56 PM
	To:  Shaw, Howard
	Cc:  support@digicool.com; <mailto:support@digicool.com;>
zope@zope.org <mailto:zope@zope.org> 
	Subject:  Re: [Zope] Shattered dreams...

	"Shaw, Howard" wrote:
	>
	(snip) 
	>         Have you just started using Zope?  Or have you been
using
	>         Zope for a while without problems?
	> 
	>         I started using Zope fairly recently, and had only
gone so far
	> as to
	>         make it a mirror of my pre-existing site using
fsimport.
	> 
	>         Can you take MySQL out of this mix for a while to see
if it has
	> any
	>         effect? Are there any other products installed that
are not
	>         part of the Zope distribution?
	> 
	>         I can say that having just reinstalled the zope binary
distro, I
	> saw no
	>         regular stoppage of the zope server until after I
reinstalled
	> the ZMySQLDA
	>         and connected to the database. I have not manually
installed any
	> other products,
	>         though I did install the external method 'fsimport'.

	Please try running Zope without the ZMySQLDA and see if that
	has any effect

	As in remove the product; or disconnect the database connection?

	(snip)
	>         It would also be interesting to us to see your
database files.
	>         Would you mind sending them to us (as an attached
gzipped
	>         tar ball or Zip file)?
	> 
	>         I assume you mean the Data.BBB* files.

	Actually, the var directory.

	> Do you want the files
	> from the current
	> working setup (which is exhibiting the recurrent loss of Zope
with no
	> messages)
	> or the non-working Data.BBB, or both?

	I'm confused.  Are you saying that you have a working setup
	that, asside from having ZopeHTTPServer die, is not having 
	problems?  How does this relate to the broken site.

What I'm saying, is that I had a working setup; subsequently it
developed a periodic death syndrome; then finally cratered completely
after this wierd session problem. I presumed a connection, with no
evidence, simply because it seems logical to me from the description
I've read of the Bobo database, that the Zope server being cut off while
accessing the file might leave the database in an uncertain state. 

The scenario I pictured was one where some portion of the basic database
structure was corrupted, but the region internal to the session was not.
Work within the session went fine, until the save, where it attempted to
access the corrupt portion, failed, rolled back the changes, but was not
able to 'undo' the session. This fits your general documentation, which
implies that while individual changes can be individually undone, the
application of a session can only be undone in the sense of a complete
removal, and not of a restoration of the session to its prior state. 

Subsequent to the session difficulty, I started editing in the open. I
only managed to touch four or five files before the database died and
then refused to restart, which makes me think that I then manipulated
the damaged region in such a way as to cause damage to the structural
information, whereas before the damage was to the internals of
individual items.

Of course, all of this is complete guesswork. I never saw any useful log
message other than the final message about a corrupt record.

Therefore the fact that my ZopeHTTPServer is periodically dying implies
that a similar crash lurks in my future. The reason I was unsure which
you wanted, is that my theories imply that this working DB may contain
information about the cause of the crash, while the other DB is
completely inaccessible, so far as I can tell. Of course, I realize that
working more directly with Bobo, one might be able to extract data more
effectively than through Zope, which of course has a greater set of
dependencies.

	For starters, please send the var directory containing the
non-working
	Data.bbb files as a gzipped tar file.

It is included.

	> I assume you don't want these
	> mailed to
	> the list; 

	Right. Please send to jim@digicool.com <mailto:jim@digicool.com>
.
	(Note that I didn't CC the list in my message to you.)

	> should I send them to your personal account?

	Yes. jim@digicool.com <mailto:jim@digicool.com> .
	 
	>         The problems you are reporting are very odd.  Needless
to say,
	>         we don't see them here, so any info you give would be
very
	>         helpfull.
	> 
	>         Please feel free to call me at the number below if
you're
	>         interested in brainstorming this.
	> 
	>         I am very interested in determining the cause of and
solution
	> for this problem, especially
	>         since it was, in my opinion, related to the recurrent
death of
	> the ZopeHTTPServer,
	>         which has returned.

	When I moved the non-working installation to a different
directory, and installed a fresh copy of the binary package, I noticed
that the first spontaneous crash did not come until after I installed
the MySQLDA, even though I spent at least two hours rebuilding the links
between a separate portion of the Zope site and my original site. (Using
it as a replacement mirror.) The recurrent death returned during my
rebuilding of the database using portion of the site. BTW, this is using
the Zope internal version of Python with MySQLModule.so compiled from
the source obtained with MySQLDA.

	Did it stop dying?  When?  Was it related to the use of MySQLDA?

	> Since I believe it to be only a matter of
	> time until it dies again, I am
	>         keeping multiple backups of the Data.BBB* files. Are
there any
	> other data files I should
	>         be aware of, for purposes of backup, or do the
Data.BBB files
	> cover it?

	The Data.bbb files cover it.
	 
	Jim

	--
	Jim Fulton           mailto:jim@digicool.com
<mailto:jim@digicool.com> 
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