[Zope] Zope vs. ColdFusion for e-commerce development

Thomas B. Passin tpassin@mitretek.org
Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:01:30 -0500


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BF2AE4.D51CAE80
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

I should say about my Cold Fusion experience that 1) I have three sites =
running, 2) they are all version 3.1, 3) they are all very low volume =
sites (not e-commerce), and 4) I don't use cookies or do much fancy =
stuff.  On the other hand, I do pass in cgi variables and test for their =
existence and values, compute result strings, and turn triply-nested =
database queries into nicely formatted tables.  I reuse frames and =
fragments of pages, as well as javascript blocks.  I have never had any =
Cold Fusion failures on any of the sites in two years, running on Win 95 =
or NT.

Perhaps version 4 is something to be cautious of.

Tom Passin
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Thomas B. Passin <tpassin@mitretek.org>
    To: zope@zope.org <zope@zope.org>
    Date: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 6:00 PM
    Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope vs. ColdFusion for e-commerce development
   =20
   =20
    As a Cold Fusion user, I would say Cold Fusion is great, but it does =
depend on what you expect to be doing.  If you were anticipating =
developing a lot of custom tags for Cold Fusion in C++, or a lot of Java =
applets, I'd say that Zope would be interesting since you can basically =
develop in Python, which is good, fast, and easier than C++.
    =20
    On the other hand, it you were going to do basically standard stuff =
like hit ODBC databases and create frames, forms, and pick lists, and =
manage session variables, I'd say Cold Fusion is for you.  I don't think =
that the price should be much of a consideration (but don't forget $300 =
for Cold Fusion Studio, which I highly recommend), since the cost of =
your time in getting up the learning curve will be dominant in either =
case. Possibly you could make do with the $1000 version, especially at =
first, to lower the cost.  Cold Fusion is much better documented than =
Zope, and I think simpler as well.
    =20
    As for the tagged language aspect, which both CF and Zope have, CF's =
tags are much simpler to understand and use.
    =20
    But if you think you are going to need a lot of custom programming, =
it could be a whole other ball game.  Zope could be great.
    =20
    Tom Passin
        From: Ben Galbraith <ben@galbraiths.org>
       =20
       =20
        Zope Folks,
       =20
        I'm with a new e-commerce startup and we're currently evaluating =
the development tools we'll be using to create our website.  The =
platform will either be Sun hardware running Solaris 7/Apache, or =
Intel/Linux boxes.
       =20
        We initially evaluated four solutions: mod_perl, PHP (using =
Apache module support), ColdFusion, and Zope.  We've eliminated mod_perl =
because of maintenance nightmares, PHP because, well, we just did, and =
now we're down to ColdFusion and Zope.  Initially I favored Zope, but =
there are a few concerns I have about it.
       =20
        First off, the size of the ColdFusion development pool and it's =
development history suggest greater stability and a more mature feature =
set.  Second, it seems that ColdFusion offers all the functionality that =
Zope does and then some.  Third, ColdFusion seems to offer similiar =
performance.  Fourth, the database connectivity seems to be equal to =
Zope's.  Fifth, their tag-based programming language seems to offer =
equivalent functionality to Zope's.  Sixth, I can find more ColdFusion =
developers than I can shake a stick at, but I have to explain to =
everyone I meet what Zope is.
       =20
        So, as my lack of information leads me to believe, there are =
only two drawbacks to ColdFusion as compared to Zope: (1) I have to pay =
$3.5k for each license, and (2) Zope has a superior model for delegating =
ownership to different people for the website.
       =20
        Could you correct any misconceptions I have and explain to me =
why I should choose Zope over ColdFusion?  I want to select the tool by =
Wed. or Thurs., so a quick reply would be appreciated.
       =20
        Thanks!
       =20
        Ben

------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BF2AE4.D51CAE80
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1706"' name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I should say about my Cold Fusion =
experience=20
that 1) I have three sites running, 2) they are all version 3.1, 3) they =
are all=20
very low volume sites (not e-commerce), and 4) I don't use cookies or do =
much=20
fancy stuff.&nbsp; On the other hand, I do pass in cgi variables and =
test for=20
their existence and values, compute result strings, and turn =
triply-nested=20
database queries into nicely formatted tables.&nbsp; I reuse frames and=20
fragments of pages, as well as javascript blocks.&nbsp; I have never had =
any=20
Cold Fusion failures on any of the sites in two years, running on Win 95 =
or=20
NT.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Perhaps version 4 is something to be cautious =
of.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Tom Passin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Thomas B. Passin &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:tpassin@mitretek.org">tpassin@mitretek.org</A>&gt;<BR><B>T=
o:=20
    </B><A href=3D"mailto:zope@zope.org">zope@zope.org</A> &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:zope@zope.org">zope@zope.org</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date: =
</B>Tuesday,=20
    November 09, 1999 6:00 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [Zope] Zope vs. =
ColdFusion=20
    for e-commerce development<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>As a Cold Fusion user, I would =
say Cold=20
    Fusion is great, but it does depend on what you expect to be =
doing.&nbsp; If=20
    you were anticipating developing a lot of custom tags for Cold =
Fusion in=20
    C++, or a lot of Java applets, I'd say that Zope would be =
interesting since=20
    you can basically develop in Python, which is good, fast, and easier =
than=20
    C++.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>On the other hand, it you were going to do =
basically=20
    standard stuff like hit ODBC databases and create frames, forms, and =
pick=20
    lists, and manage session variables, I'd say Cold Fusion is for =
you.&nbsp; I=20
    don't think that the price should be much of a consideration (but =
don't=20
    forget $300 for Cold Fusion Studio, which I highly recommend), since =
the=20
    cost of your time in getting up the learning curve will be dominant =
in=20
    either case. Possibly you could make do with the $1000 version, =
especially=20
    at first, to lower the cost.&nbsp; Cold Fusion is much better =
documented=20
    than Zope, and I think simpler as well.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>As for the tagged language aspect, which both CF =
and Zope=20
    have, CF's tags are much simpler to understand and use.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>But if you think you are going to need a lot of =
custom=20
    programming, it could be a whole other ball game.&nbsp; Zope could =
be=20
    great.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Tom Passin</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>From: </B>Ben Galbraith =
&lt;<A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:ben@galbraiths.org">ben@galbraiths.org</A>&gt;<BR><BR></DI=
V></FONT>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Zope Folks,</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm with a new e-commerce =
startup and we're=20
        currently evaluating the development tools we'll be using to =
create our=20
        website.&nbsp; The platform will either be Sun hardware running =
Solaris=20
        7/Apache, or Intel/Linux boxes.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We initially evaluated four =
solutions:=20
        mod_perl, PHP (using Apache module support), ColdFusion, and =
Zope.&nbsp;=20
        We've eliminated mod_perl because of maintenance nightmares, PHP =

        because, well, we just did, and now we're down to ColdFusion and =

        Zope.&nbsp; Initially I favored Zope, but there are a few =
concerns I=20
        have about it.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First off, the size of the =
ColdFusion=20
        development pool and it's development history suggest greater =
stability=20
        and a more mature feature set.&nbsp; Second, it seems that =
ColdFusion=20
        offers all the functionality that Zope does and then some.&nbsp; =
Third,=20
        ColdFusion seems to offer similiar performance.&nbsp; Fourth, =
the=20
        database connectivity seems to be equal to Zope's.&nbsp; Fifth, =
their=20
        tag-based programming language seems to offer equivalent =
functionality=20
        to Zope's.&nbsp; Sixth, I can find more ColdFusion developers =
than I can=20
        shake a stick at, but I have to explain to everyone I meet what =
Zope=20
        is.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, as my lack of information =
leads me to=20
        believe, there are only two drawbacks to ColdFusion as compared =
to Zope:=20
        (1) I have to pay $3.5k for each license, and (2) Zope has a =
superior=20
        model for delegating ownership to different people for the=20
        website.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could you correct any =
misconceptions I have=20
        and explain to me why I should choose Zope over =
ColdFusion?&nbsp; I want=20
        to select the tool by Wed. or Thurs., so a quick reply would be=20
        appreciated.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></=
HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BF2AE4.D51CAE80--