[Zope] DTML Syntax contd. + rant

[Don Porter]

On 11 Nov, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> In general something like this would make you lose the split between
> layout/templating issues (DTML) and more sophisticated programming
> issues (Python). Zope's idea is to keep them separate. 

If that is the case, then I think some of the introductory material
describing Zope ought to make that clear.  When first examining Zope,
I received the impression that knowledge of Python really wasn't
necessary to use Zope.  One document which gave me that idea was

	http://www.zope.org/Resources/QA

It seems to me though, that trying to make powerful use of Zope
without learning and using Python is what takes us into the dark
corners of DTML which are so difficult to use.  As someone trying to
use Zope, I feel as if I've been misled.  I may not be justified in
feeling this way, but if the Zope creators want to hear voices from
a frustrated newbie perspective, this is one of them.

While I'm on the soapbox, another thing about Zope which irks me is
its gratuitous inconsistencies.  I can't apply what I learn in one
part of Zope to another part.  In Folders, I can use "objectValues"
to get a list of the objects contained in the folder.  When I want
to iterate over the Users in a User Folder, though, "objectValues"
doesn't work.  You have to go searching through the ZQR to see that
you must use "getUserNames" instead.  What's up with that?

My grump pill should be wearing off soon...

-- 
| Don Porter                                       dgporter@erols.com  |  
|           "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!"              |
|                       -- Adam West as BATMAN                         | 
|______________________________________________________________________|