[Zope] Zope Mailing List Software is hugely inconsistent!

[Martijn Pieters]

At 22:44 3-9-99 , Jon S. Jaques wrote:
>Hey, How's it going?
>
>You know, I used to use Eudora religiously (v1 through v3, and Pro, not
>lite), but I just got so burned out on being restricted within the "space"
>of the Eudora interface -- I far prefer being able to have messages
>free-floating anywhere on my nice 19" monitor, without having to have the
>main interface huge. Also, I seem to recall that it did not seem to be
>multi-threaded, so that anytime it was doing anything, like sending or
>receiving mail, you just had to wait for it. On a modem, that really sucked!
>(Also, Eudora did not gracefully deal with HTML mail.)
>
>What version are you running? Are any of these things overcome yet? I think
>I *tried* v4, Pro, but on top of the old issues, it was also bloated.

Version 4.2 Pro.

The lack of multi-threading almost made me switch, but Qualcomm added it 
just in time =). Now only compacting and filtering can still keep you from 
reading.

Version 4.2 has the best searching capabilities I have ever seen in an 
email client, BTW.


>To answer your question as to whether or not Outlook would let you filter on
>those specific fields: Nothing (that I've ever seen) filters as good as
>Eudora! And the only thing that even comes close is Outlook! Specifically of
>all the lists that I subscribe to, if the headers are consistent, there is
>no problem.
>
> > uhoh, not a
> > 'my software is better' war...
>
>Please, I agree whole-heartedly - if there's a solution, I'm all for it.
>
> > unfortunately not
> > all mailing list managers do a good job. From, To, CC, BCC and
> > Reply-To are
> > not to be touched, for various reasons. Headers that are added by MailMan
> > (the package used for all but one Zope related lists I know) adds the
> > following headers:
>
>If I run through the Zope list, I see a huge amount of variation in the From
>line, mostly; some messages are From: "zope-admin@zope.org on behalf of
><user>", some are From "<user> on behalf of <user>", and some are just From
>"<user>"... is it not the list manager software that is rewriting this line?
>
>Is this difference only because sometime the messages are sent To:
>zope@zope.org, and sometimes they are CC'd there, instead? Sounds like a
>problem with the manager, to me.

Uhm... I do not have any rewritten From: lines. At all. Mailman does not 
munge those. I think either Outlook does, or your mailserver..

In Outlook 98 you can look at the original headers of the message with the 
obscure menu option View -> Options (on the message window).


> > Sender: zope-admin@zope.org
> > Errors-To: zope-admin@zope.org
> > X-Mailman-Version: 1.0b8
> > Precedence: bulk
> > List-Id: Users of the Z Object Publishing Environment <zope.zope.org>
> > X-BeenThere: zope@zope.org
>
>Hmmm, custom headers, in addition to the re-written From line?


Custom headers starting with an X- are really custom, and are meant for 
certain applications. In this case, for Mailman itself and for a human 
administrator of the lists.

The other headers all have meaning in the context of SMTP, and are A Very 
Good Idea. All good mailing list managers add these.

Again, Mailmam does not munge the From: address. It leaves it to the 
original sender, as it should.


> > Hmmm.. I think that we would go down the totaly wrong pathway here if we
> > try to accomodate erroneous Microsoft software all the time. =)
>
>Like I said, this is not about me, M$, or even email clients. It's about
>header consistency.
>
>IMHO, whatever is rewriting that From line should be fixed.

I hate to say this, but I think it lies on your side.

--
Martijn Pieters, Web Developer
| Antraciet http://www.antraciet.nl
| T: +31 35 7502100 F: +31 35 7502111
| mj@antraciet.nl http://www.antraciet.nl/~mj
| PGP: http://wwwkeys.nl.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xA8A32149
---------------------------------------------