[Zope] Why so many problems with database adapters?

[Tres Seaver]

"Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >From: Michel Pelletier <michel@digicool.com>
> >Tino Wildenhain wrote:
> > > If not, so we can all hope and wish, but not _demand_ to get the
> > > fixes :-)
> 
> I certainly wouldn't _demand_ fixes for something that is _free_.
> I am not that silly a person. :) But I see over and over again
> newbies (including myself) going through the same pain that
> others have already gone before. Some of the nicer people have
> digged into the problems and FIXED them with a patch. Sadly,
> I had to repeat the pain simply because I was NOT aware of
> the patch!
> 
> So, the question is simply: do we want all future users to
> go down the exact same path, or do we want to save them a
> little bit of time and stress, and make Zope a better brand name?

First, I changed the Collector (a week or so ago) to make "pending" issues
viewable, so at least the bug reports that are there are open (unless the poster
marks them as "security related" -- we would like a chance to see those before
opening them up).  Please give it another spin, if you were turned off by the
"black hole" effect before.
 
> >in CVS?  Doubt it.  Approaching the rat hole at every increasing speed.
> 
> I know. But a simple Wiki page with a simple HTTP link
> to a person's personal homepage will allow you to try his/her
> patched version at your own risk, without Digicool's
> integrity being involved at all. It's like a tree with
> a central trunk, if you know what I mean in Revision
> Control Systems like VSS. The branches eventually die
> out, but before the trunk gets a newer version, the
> users can try the patched versions from the branches.
> The patched versions don't even need to sit on zope.org
> website, they could sit in each individual home site
> (there are so many free web hosting sites out there.)
> 
> >Right now people can send a patch to the collector, but it takes us time
> >time test it and understand it, especially if it's a deep issue.
> 
> That's totally fine and understandable. But we need to figure
> out a way for people to be aware of the bugs and patches right
> at the moment when they download a product.
> 
> This way, Digicool can even afford to release a new version
> only once every 6 months, say. :) Also, over time, if an
> outside person starts to develop a credible branch, and
> Digicool is too busy to take care of the trunk, we'll know
> it's moment to either (1) outsource the product, or (2) push
> the branch into zope.org and make it the trunk.
> 
> >I vote Wiki.
> 
> Sounds good. Anything that allows user to add HTTP links is
> good enough. If they can scribble comments, so much the
> better. :)

The current Collector is "dead-end" technology, slated to be phased out in favor
of a "Tracker-based" solution ASAP (reducing the number of open "critical" bugs
is one of my priorities now, to enable this process).  Tracker (see for instance
http://www.zope.org/Products/PTK/Tracker) allows discussion of  its issues,
which will resolve some of the points raised here, especially if the discussion
can contain pointers to "outside" URLs.

As a long-time Wiki fan (I turned DC on to Wiki back in February) I don't favor
Wiki for this kind of information.  Wiki discards history in order to favor the
"evolving consensus" of its community, whereas issue tracking is more of a
workflow item, where history is *important*.  Squishdot would acutally be a
better mechanism, or the new PTK stuff which makes any PortalContent object
capable of starting a discussion.

Tres.
-- 
=========================================================
Tres Seaver  tseaver@digicool.com   tseaver@palladion.com