[Zope] ArsDigita .. request for comments

[Robert OConnor]

Hi Kent,
You wrote:

> Does anyone out there have opinions on Phil Greenspun's app server;
> http://www.arsdigita.com/index.adp
> and the ArsDigita Community System
> http://www.arsdigita.com/pages/toolkit/index.html
> I want to set up a niche portal and am looking at
> Zope and the above ACS

Phillip has written a great book that I highly
recommend to ALL Zope users:

"Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1558605347
From Amazon review:
"....[It] is both broadly conceptual and deeply technical,
and it assumes that the reader is willing to think seriously 
about the challenge of building a content site, a community 
site, or an e-commerce store before plunging in.

Although heavily Unix-oriented, it does not set out to 
proselytize a product, or even suggest that there is only 
one way to solve certain technical challenges. Rather, 
it encourages the reader to think about Web
content and functionality as something designed to 
help visitors answer questions or do something useful. 
This may sound nebulous, but his observations about why 
Web sites go bad are illustrated with many
well-chosen examples....."

Bob's comments:

Ok, this book is also "FREE" and fully on the web at:
http://www.photo.net/wtr/thebook/
and has reader comments...
The dead tree version is on glossy paper with 
many of Phillip's excellent photos and is the only
tech book that would set well on a coffee table.

Both AOLserver/ACS and ZOPE are open source ...great.

One disadvantage I see with AOLserver/ACS is the 
high cost of Oracle used as a back end.  Some in the
ACS community have talked of using other back end
databases (particularly databases that handle transactions
and are open sourced) but I don't know of how far this has 
progressed in the past three months.   Philip does make a 
good point about the database passing the "ACID" test which 
is "Atomicity, Consistency, Isolation and Durability"
See:
http://www.photo.net/wtr/thebook/databases-choosing.html
I am not sure that the Zope object database meets the ACID test.

ArsDigita sells it services to large clients with big bucks (along
with givaways to good community projects.)
I believe Digital Creations also serves large clients.  

Zope is "cleaner" than AOLserver/ACS because it uses
python rather than TCL and is "Object" based.

AOLserver/ACS seems to have has more "features"
that are working on production sites.  Is Zope
still weak in the e-commerce area?  The Zope portal
is "almost" here.  See Philip's photo.net site for a
working community system. ...

I have played with both products but have yet to do 
productive sites for paying clients with either product.   
I am interested in the comments of others
both on or off list.

-Bob OConnor zope@rocnet.com